Trial against jeiro

calinis wrote:

I accept people's opinions, just not if they are offensive like yours and Zealot's. Instead of defending your position about how you hate Jews, you change directions to how much you hate the American gvernment and you live there eh? So when are you leaving? How about i'm make it more general. When you leaving this earth, you scum?

they never said they hated the jews they just didn´t feel sorry for them as if they had it coming.

calinis wrote:

Stop defending that mentally handicapped individual. Hitler obviously had a basis of identifying them as Jews and not based on religion.

Judaism is not a race, it's a religion, a culture if you want... but a race? No, it isnt. Jews are mainly semitic, turkic, germanic and slavic. And I know it very, very well because, guess what? Half of my family is Jewish.
I've been inside Jewish communities for years and I know what they consist of. I got family in Israel. And I can tell you, Jews are not a race.

calinis wrote:

Zealot again you dont know what the thread was about. It WASNT a thread saying "ZOMG WHAT WAS THE WORSE ATROCITY" it was a thread asking whether or not Hitler deserved to be sent to the gulags.

Yes, so? If the holocaust is to be mentioned, other attrocities commited by Hitler and his allies can be commented too.

calinis wrote:

As I have said earlier mentioning of other atrocites are completely irrelavent when deciding amongst hypothetical punnishment. Just because there have been other inhumane actions, it doesnt make his actions "less evil".

Who says his actions are less evil because of other attrocities? Jeiro is just expressing that they are given to much relevance over other attrocities.

calinis wrote:

So in YOUR discussion; "Hitler wasn't that bad because there have been worse, he ONLY killed 6 million people. More people died than that in World War II, more people died in such and such.

He didn't say Hitler wasn't that bad, he stated that the Holocaust is given too much relevance and that Jews got a quite good reward: a nation.

calinis wrote:

Explain how you do not pity them, oooh the rich capitalists eh? FIRSTLY they werent all rich capitalists, secondly even if they were THEY DID NOT DESERVE IT. NOBODY deserves the conditions these people went through.

Who the hell says they deserved it? Plus, unfortunately, the most prominent jews are in their majourity rich capitalists which aside are sometimes too elitist and even RACIST. Sometimes they seed hatred against them.

calinis wrote:

Talk to a Holocaust surviver; tell them you do not pity them. Tell them what they ent through was alright because there were other things that were worse which OBVIOUSLY discredits the horror they went through.

I won't repeat the same idea over and over...

calinis wrote:

You do not pity the 2 year olds who were thrown in the fire by SS men and laughed about by them. You do not pity the poor people who worked so hard that they died. I wouldnt wish this upon my worst enemies. I cant believe the large amount of NAzi sympathies people have ironcally on this thread.

He's not saying they deserved it, he says the Jews have got justice served to them while other victims haven't. He says, and with a fair enough reason, that the Holocaust gets too much attention in comparison to other attrocities that are not less important and that arguably could have been worse.

Of course, you have the duty to misunderstand all this and use it to discredit someone.

Jeiro, next time be more clear when expressing your thoughts not to allow guys like this to misundrstand your point and use it against you.

"I personally don't have anything against him but yeah, he really was a jerky bastard. The SS and what not."

Actually, Zealot, he DID say Hitler wasnt that bad. "I personally don't have anything against him"? What's that supposed to mean? That, you know, he wasn't anything more than a jerk. When I think of a jerk, I dont think of a person who killed 6 million people. I think of someone who was offensive and rude and inconsiderate to others. Hitler goes WAY beyond a 'jerky bastard". Look, just because the western media seems to care about the horror that was that Holocaust, it doesnt mean you dont have to. Stop trying to discredit certain atrocities because they get media coverage. Will you have a thread of compassion and realize that this isnt about political differences and that is a human right's issue? When will you see this for what is and not think of it any worse than horrible because the western imperalists think otherwise. And you wouldn't want to have any similarities with THEM would you? Nevermind that something like this would be considered universally evil. On that thread, when Jeiro was sympathizing with Nazis, he never mentioned any of the other things Hitler did, but instead used other irrelavent details of other tragedies to further his agenda of the "evil" western imperalists for condemning Nazis. I dont give a shit if ALL Jews (stop makng generalizations, it makes your point less valid) are rich capitalists who are racists. This is completely irralevent. i wouldn't want even my worse enemies to endure the horror they went through. The Jews got a pretty nice reward eh? How about the ones unable to move to Israel because they died from the horrible working conditions that were prominent in the cocenetration camps? How about them? And the ones that survived, they went through the brutal conditions WHERE MANY HAVE FLASHBACKS OF the labour camps themselves, where they endured something that no human should endure, and they get a piece of land after that. Does that erase everything they went through? Does it make it seem okay now? And i'll stop there, you guys are pissing me off. Jeiro, you're a stupid Nazi sympathizer piece of shit who acts like a little girl, come on, stop trying so hard and overusing the same shit all the time. LOL, eh? LOL LOL LOL Not everything is funny, you dumbass. LOLWUT???? Also, when are you moving out of the US? And Zealot, you're a hypocrite who supports Russian imperalism only because you're ALWAYS against the west regardless of how unjust something is, you'll defend it if the west is against it (take the Holocaust, for example). I fail to see how supporting an imperalist country is a lefitst position, but then again there are a ton of contradictions in the leftist ideolgy. I know you wont ban Jeiro regardless of how offensive his comments are because you guys are elite who get special privledges. I know this is only a website, but you're going to turn alot of people away from communism if they see the obvious eliteism that is evident. I find that ironic, an ideology that supports total equality, and a advocate for it is all about eliteism.

Calinis, long and pashionat tirades won't change much, Ironically enough I'm Jewish and aI never once even got offended by Jeiro's speeches becous I know what he was expressing was his detest with the fact considering all the death toles in WW2 the holocaust gets the ONLY credit, I also am personally against jewish abuse of the holocaust and also against the state of Israel, becous its now almost like the 3rd Reich, and is a American backwater not to mention a pretty handy excuse for Christian retards form the US to give a better reason to kill Arabs other than that there "saving them from Hell".
You can already drop it - were not saying the Holocaust shouldn't be remembered nor should it be considered a good event or that Hitler was a good Uncle to his Jewish friends - but we also shouldn't blow it in all ways like it's some sort of "omg" a lot more than jews died in Death camps, you don't see them QQing al the time over it.

calinis wrote:

"I personally don't have anything against him but yeah, he really was a jerky bastard. The SS and what not."

Actually, Zealot, he DID say Hitler wasnt that bad. "I personally don't have anything against him"? What's that supposed to mean? That, you know, he wasn't anything more than a jerk. When I think of a jerk, I dont think of a person who killed 6 million people.

Jeiro is a Korean, as a Korean he's closer to the tragedies caused by Japanese to both Koreans and Chinese. When speaking about Hitler, he can of course argue that Hitlers' actions have been given too much attention while Japanese Imperial actions have been totally disregarded. Else Hitlers' victims have got justice serviced to them, victims of the Japenese haven't. Nazis have been prosecuted even to this day... Shioprishii was hired by US.

And now, just for the record, if Hitler is to be held responsible for the deaths on the hands of the SS, Wermacht, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine then the victims go beyond 35 million, we could argue he's actually also responsible for the death of German soldiers making him responsible for nearly 70% of WWIIs deaths. However if we're to stick to victims of Germans, then the most hit peoples were Eastern European ones namely Poland, USSR and Yugoslavia.

The Holocaust is given too much attention even though more than 70% of the Jews that were killed came from occupied nations of the Eastern front: 50% of all the Jews that were killed were polish and 20% were from the USSR. And even so they ammount to less than 12% of all the casualties in the Eastern Front. So I'd say Eastern Europe per say was more of a target than teh Jews. Oh and if we're going to speak about ethnicity and races and all that, about 80% of all the killed jews were Slavic, so it seems the most prosecuted "race" were Slavians.

No one is saying they deserved it, hell I might have lost family members there, but hey did you know jews got Israel? Did you know Nazis have been hunted down for 63 years? Did you know Israel sends yearly a military delagtion to Auschwitz to conmemorate its liberation and to remember the killed Jews? And they were just 10% of all the casualties of WWII. Who gives a damn about Koreans or Chinese killed suring the Japanese occupation? No one, they're bunch so they can't complaint rigt.

calinis wrote:

I think of someone who was offensive and rude and inconsiderate to others. Hitler goes WAY beyond a 'jerky bastard". Look, just because the western media seems to care about the horror that was that Holocaust, it doesnt mean you dont have to. Stop trying to discredit certain atrocities because they get media coverage.

Media coverage? Germany is still paying indeminaztions to Holocaust survivors and giving assistance to Israel. Israel exists. Nazis are still being hunted down even though probably most of them are now on a wheelchair or simply dead. Who is paying Chinese and Koreans for Shioishii's experiments? For the massacres led by Japanese?

calinis wrote:

Will you have a thread of compassion and realize that this isnt about political differences and that is a human right's issue?

O rly? I can easily argue you're using the Holocaust as a political tool against Jeiro. That's depicable. Jeiro is in his right to excert his comment without wrongly being accused of being a Nazi sympathizer.

calinis wrote:

When will you see this for what is and not think of it any worse than horrible because the western imperalists think otherwise. And you wouldn't want to have any similarities with THEM would you? Nevermind that something like this would be considered universally evil.On that thread, when Jeiro was sympathizing with Nazis, he never mentioned any of the other things Hitler did, but instead used other irrelavent details of other tragedies to further his agenda of the "evil" western imperalists for condemning Nazis. I dont give a shit if ALL Jews (stop makng generalizations, it makes your point less valid) are rich capitalists who are racists. This is completely irralevent. i wouldn't want even my worse enemies to endure the horror they went through. The Jews got a pretty nice reward eh? How about the ones unable to move to Israel because they died from the horrible working conditions that were prominent in the cocenetration camps? How about them? And the ones that survived, they went through the brutal conditions WHERE MANY HAVE FLASHBACKS OF the labour camps themselves, where they endured something that no human should endure, and they get a piece of land after that. Does that erase everything they went through?

See how you add up unnecesary words just to give some "strength" to your arguements?

No one is saying it's not terrible. But have you ever mind to take into account the context in which that developed?

Jews accounted for a minority of the casualties, most of them were taken from Eastern Front occupied territories making most of Jewish casualties a derivate from eastern front actions in which they as well account for a minority of the casualties. There were more people that lost their lives and that suffered no less than Jews, and Jews thats suffered without being part of the Holocaust. And directly by Hitler's orders.

More Chinese were killed suring the Japanese occupation and similar tortures were applied to several chinese populations, those tortures were applied as well in Korea.

Lots of people suffered equally as the jews, were more and were not retributed. Jews got a nation of their own, got Germany indemnizing them for decades and the responsibles prosecuted for the same ammount of time. Shiorishii for example, who was nothing but Japanese Mengele, who led n o less terrible experiments than the German "Angel of Death" was hired by USA. So evil Germans are forced to pay and killed.... and what about evil Japanese? They get a job seat in US armed forces.

Do you understand the whole damned point here?

calinis wrote:

Does it make it seem okay now? And i'll stop there, you guys are pissing me off.

Pissing you off? Ha.

calinis wrote:

Jeiro, you're a stupid Nazi sympathizer piece of shit who acts like a little girl, come on, stop trying so hard and overusing the same shit all the time. LOL, eh? LOL LOL LOL Not everything is funny, you dumbass. LOLWUT???? Also, when are you moving out of the US?

Missing the point again and recurring to ad homnem arguements... thats strong argumentation calinis!

calinis wrote:

And Zealot, you're a hypocrite who supports Russian imperalism only because you're ALWAYS against the west regardless of how unjust something is, you'll defend it if the west is against it (take the Holocaust, for example). I fail to see how supporting an imperalist country is a lefitst position, but then again there are a ton of contradictions in the leftist ideolgy.

And now ad hominem arfguements against me, ha! Oh and who talks about bringing irrelevant things to table.... In a thread accusing Jeiro of being a Nazi sympathizer, RUSSIAN IMPERIALISM is completely irrelevant.

But you want some discussion on that? ok, you'll ahve it:

Supporter of Russian Imperialism? Objectively, Russian Imperialism ended 86 years ago after the Russian Empire was effectively dissolved by the USSR. Will you want to talk about Soviet Imperialism? No nation was conquered by USSR. Eastern Europe was occupied by USSR most of those countries having attacked USSR first Poland being the most notable exception. And even so their cultures were not only not destroyed but strengthened something that doesn't happen during Imperialism. Afghanistan was not only a failed invation, USSR was helping a friendly government in a civil war.

And... now you're going to bring Chechnya to table and probably actual South Ossetia and Abkhazia issue with Georgia...

Chechnya: While most of the Chechen inhabitants wants to be independent only 3% supported the actions of the Ichkerian separatists and the caucasus emirates. Those factions attacked Russia and they paid for it and I really wish they get exterminated. Once Chechens organise themselves, if they still wish to, they can always get independence.

Abhkazia and South Ossetia: Both nations made referendums in which the vast majouirty of the population wanted full independence from Georgia. And Independence de facto stablished since USSR's collapse. After years of having some autonomy, Ossetians becoe more disobedient to Georgia and Georgia decided to attack. Being there a Russian peace keeping force and being several south ossetians Russian citizens, Russia intervents preventing a majour bloodshed. Abkhazians, wanting to prevent something similar to happen to them decide to boot Georgians out.

I don't know how assisting those regions and preventing a larger massacre accounts for Imperialism...

And going back to the real Russian Imperialism: Are you aware that most of territories conquered by Russia belonged to someone that had attacked them previously? Most notably the Mongol Empire and Poland. Russian Imperialism has been by far the slightest of all Imperialisms:

While Russia had acquired most (not all but most) of its territories through counter attacking those who attacked first, Britain, France, Spain, Japan and USA targeted in the majourity of cases lands owned by people who had done nothing to them previously.

And in neoimperialist terms, Russia doesn't even enter into that qualification while the whole EU (except Eastern European nations and Greece), USA and Japan enter in this category. If a country's government doesn't favour their market and industry, they'll invade it and place a friendly, or as they call them "democratic" government. Drae to say it isn't that way.

calinis wrote:

I know you wont ban Jeiro regardless of how offensive his comments are because you guys are elite who get special privledges. I know this is only a website, but you're going to turn alot of people away from communism if they see the obvious eliteism that is evident. I find that ironic, an ideology that supports total equality, and a advocate for it is all about eliteism.

Elitism? There's simply no good reason to ban Jeiro.

And, at school most people do not think. They talk shit about German people and I am suppose to stand their and say nothing? Even Japanese people and Turkish people make fun of Germans, and think they can because 'German people are bad' even though Japan was equal to them, and the Turkish were even worse! (in the Armenian genocide)

zealot I think that's the longest post I've ever seen besides watermelons useless arguments

mattabesta wrote:

zealot I think that's the longest post I've ever seen besides watermelons useless arguments

And that is supposed to be relevant to the conversation because of....? You make me think you're saying it's tl;dr. If so, why do yo even bother to come and participate in a forum?

Cyprian, the reason you dont get offended is probably because you're looking at his posts the wrong way. You may be Jewish, but I hardly think you were a victim of the Holocaust and that's completely different .From Jeiro's posts, he makes it seem like it was something to joke about noted by his "lol" at the start of his post. As in it was "funny" that there was a thread about how horrible Hitler was. Look at his post and you'll see how he makes these comments and denies its seriousness. Since most of the Holocaust survivers are dead, I fail to see how Germany is "still paying indeminaztions to [them]" and its completely illogical because it is a democratic country now. Since its new government has no connections to Nazism, it should not be held responsible. I do not think Germans are evil; I think nazis are evil. I dont like how some Jews use the Holocaust to further their agenda, but the fact that it gets a ton of media coverage or the fact that people are using to further other goals does not make it any less terrible. If Bob killed 6 people and there was a discussion of what punnishment would befit Bob, why should someone bring up the fact that Jon killed 12 people in deciding upon Bob's punnishment? Both are wrong, but simply because one gets more coverage doesnt make it any less wrong. When I look at the people who perished, I dont disregard certain tragedies because there have been others that have hardly been mentioned; I look at the individual lives that were lost. I do not think of the Holocaust as any more horrible simply because it gets more media coverage. How do you reckon saying that Jews didnt suffer the most would suddenly change my mind? I'm simply not talking about the Holocaust, but everything Hitler did and how the people suffered because of him because the topic was about him, so I would mention other things as well. But Jeiro didn't. He said that he was just a jerk and that the Holocaust was kinda bad and shit like that.

Your support for a country against the wests shows you would support any country against the west simply because of that reason. As a communist, do you not believe there should be no borders, no countries? Then why do you support Russia's position and not an independant state, independant of both Georgia and Russia? Zealot, why are you defending a capitalist state? Just curious, cuz Russia's so much more corrupt than the US. I do know that Russia wants to establish dominance once more and become a strong empire, that's why they want control of S. Ossetia. But anyways I brought this up cuz it showed how much of a damn hypocrite you are.

Again, i'm curious as to whether or not you would defend Jeiro if he flat-out said all Jews deserved to die. I just need to know how this elitism thing works.

He he. I have a question for YOU CALINIS.

WHY SO SERIOUS?!

jk, but in other news. Why do YOU support the ACTIONS of the West? No offense to ANYBODY Western here but the West had done NOTHING but invade OTHER countries in the bullshit name of democracy and freedom.

f**k, just LOOK at Vietnam. People are STILL dying because of the mines the US refuses to clean up.

Double contradiction no? And Cyp is FREE to do as he fucking pleases. If you use the old "Why u support somebody else other than West, u commie" shit ever again, then perhaps I shall put you on trial like you did me for NO REASON.

Mmmyesshhh, hmm? :3c

calinis wrote:

Your support for a country against the wests shows you would support any country against the west simply because of that reason. As a communist, do you not believe there should be no borders, no countries? Then why do you support Russia's position and not an independant state, independant of both Georgia and Russia? Zealot, why are you defending a capitalist state? Just curious, cuz Russia's so much more corrupt than the US. I do know that Russia wants to establish dominance once more and become a strong empire, that's why they want control of S. Ossetia. But anyways I brought this up cuz it showed how much of a damn hypocrite you are.

FKKKK! LOLWUT?! Dude. WAKE UP AND SMELL THE FLOWERS! Russia HAS NOT invaded a SINGLE country in the LAST 20 years. Their last fk up was in freaking Afghanist, they TOO claimed to "free the people". Instead, Russia messed up and got their butts kicked out. It was a tragedy for BOTH SIDES, like how I see in good Russian movies.

Russia STILL has their nostilaga of communism. Sure, maybe not a good memory of it, but NEVERTHELESS it provided jobs to them. You don't even SEE that in America, they just call the bullshit of "competition breeds money" all the FKING TIME. FOR SERIOUS!!!

Ossetia. Dude, get a FKING CLUE. Georgia ATTACKED AND UTTERLY DESTORYED Ossetia's capital within a single DAY. It was freaking blitzkreig. Russia REACTED in response to the attack and sent a massive force to fight back against Georgia.

Indepence? lol, get another CLUE. I'm sure Ossetia LIKES the Russians and vice versa. I am extremely DISGUSTED at the fact that the Chinese and Russian CAN'T DO SHIT about the biased lies against them. China is 1/5 of freaking humanity and the West is calling them "cheaters and liars". If SO, then tell me WHY they have OVER 7000 years of history and LIVED TO THIS DAY. It is because they (China, Russia, Korea or whatever) are UNITED in a TRUE SENSE.

So I say, just because some media said some so-called "facts" about Ossetia or Tibet or whatever, claiming them to be true, does that mean ALL the Tibetians, Ossetians, or whatever WANT indepence?! HELL FKING NO! Some are against, some are mixed, and some like their so-called "oppressors". So what?! The West needs to fking learn that installing a fucking "democracy", IMPOSING THEM ON THE PEOPLE, is JUST THE SAME as them "allying" with a nation.

Case and point: Korea, Japan, and even Germany. People are friendly as hell over there, but they overall dislike the American presence. It's overtime for the USA to GTFO!!!

It is overtime for them to fight back against the West.

You don't EVER SEE an American showing BOTH SIDES (other than Letters) do ya? Much less peace bewteen the Russians and Americans? Myeshh?

calinis wrote:

I just need to know how this elitism thing works.

Case and point: U

I dont support all the actions of the west. Your mentality is "if the west supports something or opposes something, my opinion MUST be the opposite." is that about accurate? What is your opinion on countries like N. Korea? Are they "not bad" because western countries hate them?

Again I ask you this, Jeiro, when will you leave the country you hate? Since revolution will not happen, why dont you move to some country that is somewhat socialist? Perhaps Russia, oh wait it's not socialist anymore, but people like Zealot defend it, so it must be good for you eh?

It was perfectly logical to put you on trial, you Nazi scum. Not that anyone considers my accusations seriously because there seems to be protection of certain individuals.......and this isnt a biased system at all eh?

Russia is only nostaligic for communism because ANYTHING is better than their current shit government. They've never had a real democracy afterall.

S. Ossetia should not be controlled by Russia, their primarly motive is not to provide peacekeeping forces, but to take over it as part of their empire. I would gladly like to see an independant state against both oppressors.

Stop being a biased hypocrite, Jeiro. You dont show both sides. Your opinion matches the American enemy despite whether they are right or wrong.

Dude. lolwut? You call me Nazi scum whenever YOUR comments CLEARLY show absolute fanatically jingosim to the West?

And of COURSE my opinions will run into Westerners who would be more than happy to kill me just because I speak differently about the US and don't support them. Facism much?

Russia, Russia. Ah, yes. Good old Russia. Ever consider just WHO TURNED THEIR government a corrupt cappie corporation? It's obvious. Think about that.

Leave the country I hate? Soon I hope. America promised my father to be a so-called "promised" land. Instead, what he got was a drugged up screwed society beyond all redemption, held only by the fabric of lies of "freedom, market and religion". I see it all the time, even in my school, it's affected my fellow classmates whom I dearly love. One even said my Chinese teacher was "brainwashed by the Chinese government". No joke. If America's education system is that good to brainwash their own future in believing "US is right and the only one to be right, while all others can just fk right off", then America has already fallen.

I've run into racism all the time. They make fun of my nationality and think US is the center of the world. Cultural ignorance is mixed with jingoism and billions spent on our so-called "national defense". Not even Russia has done that in a long time. It's gonna be another arms race BECAUSE of the US spending paper money on unmanned airplanes to "save human lives". Sweet eh?

As for the so-called "poor" of America. Material conditions affect this country like a claymore bomb ripping into a human. They live in the streets and see the rich everyday, causing them to become jealous and thus, commit crimes for one reason or another. They have no motivation, no family to turn too, and that leads to their death. And don't EVEN give me the statics of China's poor. Sure, they ARE poor but I've asked my Chinese teacher today about HOW China's poor feel.

The majority of so-called "poverty poor Chinese" are FKING WRONG. They feel rich in spirit and NOT materialist things like how the West adores. In fact, they would much rather TURN AWAY from materialist things and not bother with them. They much rather live life as best they can, caring for each other and only providing for themselves, what they need. Yeah, a want here and there, but nothing big.

To be honest, I'd much rather live in China than America. At least the Chinese are mostly friendly and hospitable to others. Much unlike Westerners I've seen...

Ossetia. Heh. Russian can't go into Ossetia in response for an attack but America can (like Afghanistan and Iraq)? What the hell? That's biased and considerable anti-Russian propanganda.

calinis wrote:

Since most of the Holocaust survivers are dead, I fail to see how Germany is "still paying indeminaztions to [them]" and its completely illogical because it is a democratic country now. Since its new government has no connections to Nazism, it should not be held responsible.

The indemnizations are being paid to families and to several survivors... didn't you know that several survivors are around 63 years old. Yes, even babies count as survivors.

And it's not illogical, the German state assumed responsability for Hitler's acts. That's right.

calinis wrote:

I do not think Germans are evil; I think nazis are evil. I dont like how some Jews use the Holocaust to further their agenda, but the fact that it gets a ton of media coverage or the fact that people are using to further other goals does not make it any less terrible. If Bob killed 6 people and there was a discussion of what punnishment would befit Bob, why should someone bring up the fact that Jon killed 12 people in deciding upon Bob's punnishment? Both are wrong, but simply because one gets more coverage doesnt make it any less wrong.

Missing the point again huh? NO ONE IS SAYING IT'S NOT TERRIBLE.

Lets say this event happened "Missisippi river massacre", Bob was on one side of the river and Jon was on the other side. Bob and Jon planned to kill people there. Bob killed 6 persons and Jon killed 12. Bob was caught and was punished and Bob's family is still paying indemnizations to 1 of the families of one of the victims of Bob. When talking about the Missisipi River Massacre everyone talks about Bob and say Bob was cruel and Bob this and all that. Jon in the other hand just got beaten by police and then was invited to join the Police. In Bob's trial someone is mentioning that Jon was Bob's coworker and comments that Bob's getting too much attention while Jon is working now with the police.

I hope that analogy helps you to understand.

calinis wrote:

When I look at the people who perished, I dont disregard certain tragedies because there have been others that have hardly been mentioned; I look at the individual lives that were lost. I do not think of the Holocaust as any more horrible simply because it gets more media coverage. How do you reckon saying that Jews didnt suffer the most would suddenly change my mind? I'm simply not talking about the Holocaust, but everything Hitler did and how the people suffered because of him because the topic was about him, so I would mention other things as well. But Jeiro didn't. He said that he was just a jerk and that the Holocaust was kinda bad and shit like that.

You're accusing Jeiro of being a nazi sympathizer while all he said, in very blunt and summarized words is: Ok Hitler was bad, Holocaust perpetrators got punished and justice was given to Jews. In the Far East Japanese did the same but no justice was served to theri victims and there's been given much less attention to Japanese war crimes.

How the hell does such a comment qualify as sympathizing with Nazis?

calinis wrote:

Your support for a country against the wests shows you would support any country against the west simply because of that reason.

You seem to imply I just support anyone who opposes west. If so, no, you're wrong. I usually don't like west but I'm objective and objectuively west has always been more agressive than East with a much less humaine cultural background that east, with a much more individualist mentality and much more prone to degeneration. The most degenerate traits of modernity come from west. That makes me be reserved towards west, but, if the west does something right, and it has happened sveral times, I'll acknowledge it.

calinis wrote:

As a communist, do you not believe there should be no borders, no countries?

This unveils your limited knowledge on communism. Not all communists believe in a borderless and countryless world. I personally love cultural and national diversity and its territorial demarcation. I'm just anti-nationalist. But I fully support patriotism. Just like individuals have different identities, countries should be the same, but we should treat each other like brothers. With or differences and delimited spaces but like brothers.

calinis wrote:

Then why do you support Russia's position and not an independant state, independant of both Georgia and Russia?

Do you know Russia's position at all? Russia is not planing to annexate South ossetia, they either supported that it became independent or remained part of Georgia but demanded that Georgia respects South ossetian autonomy. South Ossetians seem to want to join North Ossetia which is an autonomous republic within teh Russian Federation in which case South Ossetians would be CHOOSING to join Russia.

calinis wrote:

Zealot, why are you defending a capitalist state? Just curious, cuz Russia's so much more corrupt than the US.

I love Russia, it's where my roots are from and even if she's capitalist its capitalism is more limited and bizarre than USA's. Despisable capitalism, horrible, but not conventional nor imperialist.

calinis wrote:

I do know that Russia wants to establish dominance once more and become a strong empire, that's why they want control of S. Ossetia.

Yeah... there's absolutely not a better way to show what a strong empire you are than not taking a little separatist region within a country that has less than half the population of your capital... If the world wasn't afraid of the Russian Bear 2 weeks ago, now after seeing what Russia did in South Ossetia (saving people from masacre) they must be trembling in fear... (note sarcasm please)

Take your facts straight and check up the definition of imperialism. And check both sides of the coin.

calinis wrote:

But anyways I brought this up cuz it showed how much of a damn hypocrite you are.

Are you sure that you know the meaning for hypocrite? because it really seems that you don't.

calinis wrote:

Again, i'm curious as to whether or not you would defend Jeiro if he flat-out said all Jews deserved to die. I just need to know how this elitism thing works.

This is irrelevant because it's a suposition and besides I alreday told you that I have Jewish family, in fact for 6 years of my life I was raised as a Jew. I was even forced last year to celebrate a Jewish festivity because my uncle blackmailed us. But anyway I'll answer to your question:

If Jews deserved to die just for being jews:

NO. I wouldn't support Jeiro if he said that. It would be plain stupidity and wouldn't make him better than the Japanese he criticizes.

But, once again, that is irrelevant because he didn't say Jews deserved to die.

And if he said that they deserved to die because all were capitalist bastards... well, then he'd be wrog on Generalizing but his intention would be to target Capitalist Bastards and not Jews per say.

You get the point or are you preparing to dogde it once more?

Jeiro:

I dont 100% support the US, that hardly makes me comparable to Nazis, considering I've falt out condemned them, whilst you said nothing more than they were simply not good or something generic like that.

Why do you speak like Russia is a decent country? Is capitalism OK if it's against American capitalism? Though I dont see how there is any difference, except for the fact that in the US there are a ton of social programs, so technically it's not capitalist. More like a market economy, while I dont know the economics of Russia.

You've run into a bunch of people who would gladly kill you because of your opinion? And how exactly does this match everyone's opinion? What the hell is with your pathetic rant. The US wouldn't kill you because you dont agree with certain aspects of the government. Heck, you wouldn't even be arrested for that. That's what freedom of speech is. I'd hardly consider the majority of Americans brainwashed. In fact, although I haven't been to school in the US, I have seen tremendous anti-American sentiment there, so I hardly think they are being "brainwashed", unless you mean liberally.

In China they kill you for killing a panda. They have crap human rights records and aside from the major cities, people are poor as hell. Much more so than in the US. I know there are other bad things happening in China, but I cant pinpoint exactly. At least in America, you have freedom.

Russia doesn't want an independant country, but they want to build on their empire, 'course.

I'll respond to Zealot on my next post....

Like I fucking said. China's poor DON'T NEED MATERIAL THINGS. UNLIKE YOU FAWKING WESTERNERS, THEY CONSIDER RICH IN SPIRIT AND FAMILIY MOAR IMPOTANT THAN SHIT PRODUCTS THAT'LL ONLY LAST A FOCKING YEAR.

Get spirital value and material value into your head. Consider them BOTH before screaming that "China is poor" and BS like that. China historically has been a poor nation and they are used to that, most people simply live their lives as best they can while caring for their families and feeling proud of their nation as well. America just can't just say shit about China because they have been bad during Mao's time...it's backwards and wrong.

Oops, too late.

You know NOTHING ABOUT Russia and China, so shut the heck up and research facts before saying crap. OOPS TOO LATE!

That's right. They would murder me for my opinion. And that is their opinion. You call that freedom? LOLNO.

China killing people for a panda. Okay first of all, nobody would be STUPID enough to kill a CUTE AS HELL panda. And second of all, NO. They would NEVER kill a person for something as stupid as that. Sure, you'll get beat up and blackmailed by the police and shit, but America does that too, AIMRITE?!

Russia expanding empire? LOLWUT?! Any evidence of that. XD Hey, don't be an American nationalist who justifies killings of Iraqis because they want freedom and apple pie...

...

OOPS TOO LATE!

Zealot:

So if Bob kills less than Jon, do you think the lives that Bob took away are any less valued? That's what you're saying, bascially. To me, however, I think of the individuals themselves. I think of the lives taken away are equally valued (considering they are all innocent lives). Of course, justice should be served and both of them should punnished. Would the fact that Jon killed more be used as a defense towards Bob? No, if there's a trial about Bob, the trial should be entirely about Bob. Then there should be a seperate trial for Jon. Both of the verdicts should be independant of the other.

I'm not taking Georgia's side in this, neither Russia's. S. Ossetia should be seperated from Georgia, as that is what the people want, but it should not be a part of Russia. The peacekeeping that Russia is supposively doing is not the prime reason; they want a strong empire once more. They would not be willing to accept an independant state. Now if Russia wanted to liberate them from the oppressive Gerogia and recongize S. Ossetia as independant. I severely doubt that they want to be controlled by Russia. I dont know about the politics of Georigia, but Russia is not a democratic state. Why would they want to be ruled under Russia?

Even if he said all Jews are capitalist bastards and deserve to die, that would not be a defendable position. He is targeting Jews by saying that as much as he is targeting capitalists (wth would you seriously advocate the mass-murder of all capitalists)

Jeiro:

I care more about my family than consumerism. The horrible human rights record in China is much more severe than in the US. The justice system in the US certainly needs to be reformed, but it is not in comparison of other corrupt countries.

calinis wrote:

Zealot:

So if Bob kills less than Jon, do you think the lives that Bob took away are any less valued? That's what you're saying, bascially.

Then you really have some serious comprehension problems.

calinis wrote:

Of course, justice should be served and both of them should punnished. Would the fact that Jon killed more be used as a defense towards Bob? No, if there's a trial about Bob, the trial should be entirely about Bob. Then there should be a seperate trial for Jon. Both of the verdicts should be independant of the other.

Did you even bother to read what I wrote? It's prefectly defendable to say Bob has been given too much attention and that attention should be now put as well somewhere else. No one is defending Bob.

calinis wrote:

I'm not taking Georgia's side in this, neither Russia's. S. Ossetia should be seperated from Georgia, as that is what the people want, but it should not be a part of Russia.

Actually South Ossetians are very pro-Russian, most of them count with Russian citizenship, and seem to want to join north Ossetia.

calinis wrote:

The peacekeeping that Russia is supposively doing is not the prime reason; they want a strong empire once more.

Yeah, of course. They want a strong empire and that's why they go and prevent Georgia from comitting a larger massacre than they already did. Pretty Imperialist.

calinis wrote:

They would not be willing to accept an independant state. Now if Russia wanted to liberate them from the oppressive Gerogia and recongize S. Ossetia as independant.

Recognizing South Ossetia's and Abkhazia's independence is being demanded by the Russian Duma and is being considered by the government. South Ossetians will decide wether they want to be independent or join Russia.

calinis wrote:

I severely doubt that they want to be controlled by Russia.

Controlled by? Why not join Russia?

calinis wrote:

I dont know about the politics of Georigia, but Russia is not a democratic state. Why would they want to be ruled under Russia?

There's no democracy ANYWHERE. But hey, were you aware that most of Russia does actually support Putin and Medvedev? What do you call that? Fascist Dicatorship?

As I tell you, South Ossetians are pretty pro-Russian.

calinis wrote:

Even if he said all Jews are capitalist bastards and deserve to die, that would not be a defendable position.

Who said it would be defendable? I'm just being objective by saying he wouldn't be targetinge Jews but capitalist bastards.

calinis wrote:

He is targeting Jews by saying that as much as he is targeting capitalists (wth would you seriously advocate the mass-murder of all capitalists)

He'd be targeting Jews if he attacked the Judaicity of the subjects in question, yet, he's attacking their capitalistic bastardity... are you able to use logic?

And, would I support mass murder of capitalists? Well.... if all of them were capitalist by conviction, wanted to destroy a communist society and were competely uneager to cooperate, I guess it would be in some circumstances a necesary option..

calinis wrote:

I care more about my family than consumerism. The horrible human rights record in China is much more severe than in the US. The justice system in the US certainly needs to be reformed, but it is not in comparison of other corrupt countries.

Tell me fucking so then. Give me the evidence instead of just saying shit that the West screams into your head.

China has greatly improved a LOT during their modern history. And OF COURSE, China treats their people harshly. Not because they are evil, but because it was in their freaking culture to punish offenders harshly to serve as an exmaple. It's morbid but in fact, it was extremely RARE.

Usually, death was reserved for the most serious offenders. Such as murdering and/or rape. Or like that guy who was corrupt capitalist, who sickened many Chinese because he wanted profits?

All those so-called "human rights" abuses are in fact, far and few in bewteen and most likely exaggerated by Western media to present China as a devil. Most of that shit is underground anyways. I don't see American cops getting ragged on because they killed and tortured a person, do I? Japanese cops toture and kill to, so why don't they get ragged on by the UN or whatever?

It's because they are America's so-called "ally" and thus, the "good guy".

And you CAN NOT just expect China to change their human rights in an instant. It would cause massive political change that the normal people are not used to and mayhem would soon filter the streets of China.

As a fellow Asian, I defend China against the leeches of the West because, throughout China's great history, they ALWAYS have been invaded and hurt by other countries bigger than them. This is one of the reasons why most Chinese feel soo proud of their motherland and strongly defend it with such zealism. Korea is the same way, and for that, I love the Chinese for what they are. Sure, they live in corrupt capitalism now, but who knows. Maybe somebody would change China for the better. They try and try so hard to present themselves and all they have gotten is contempt and scorn from the West in return.

And because you deliberately ignored my words telling the freaking difference bewteen "spirital poor" and "materialist poor", you use it to further justify your hate against China.

jerio the only diffrenc between china and the us is this:
In china a rebellious senator dissapears.
In the us a rebellious senator get's bribed.

Zealot:

How many times must I say this? Nobody's trial should be interrupted by other cases. If I ask someone's opinion on Bob, will responses saying "well Jon killed more...." be valid? It makes it seem like the people Jon killed are suddenly more important, when all the people killed are equal.

I would question why anyone would want to live under Russia's rule. If the US wanted to annex Canada, would you see that as imperalist? I mean a bunch of Canadians are dual-citizens so CLEARLY they want that. Say there is genocide going on in part of southern Canada against a majority of a specific ethnic group that lives primarly in that region (like the Chinese who seem to populate southern BC), and the US sends "peacekeeping" forces, a primary objective to increase their imperal empire, would this be justified? Should the US annex that part of Canada or should be left as an independant state? Say these people have a different culture, etc, and their culture is not tolerated in Canada. Say the American government is fascist (obviously its not). Should America annex part of Canada?

Wanting to kill all capitalists is absolutely disgusting. Contrary to popular leftist belief, not all capitalists are scum who exploit their labour and only care about profits. Some just own the "means of production". That in tself doesnt make them bad. I dont support a communist revolution, would you kill ME???

And now i'll respond to Jeiro hopefully before dinner.....

Jeiro:

You seem to be convinced that there are human rights violations there. If it will take awhile to change their human rights, why do you want to move there? Wouldn't you want to move to a country that values human life a little bit more? I find it highly ironic that you support a country that is more concerned about profits than the US that they would put led in children's toys because it's cheap. At least in the US, there's regulation against that kind of stuff....

Okay go ahead and move there and enjoy the censorship there and it's oh-so great government....

calins for this to be a trial you need to make a poll

I'm make another thread...