| Reformism | |
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+3Cyprian Uljanow mattabesta oligarch 7 posters |
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oligarch Chairman of the WR Committee
Posts : 1643 Join date : 2008-01-31
| Subject: Reformism Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:40 am | |
| Reformism is just as acceptable a revolutionary theory as revolutionism. To claim that only one revolutionary tactic is valid or applicable is foolish and anti-Marxist, for example, While insurrection was the correct course of action is Russia during the Bolshevik Revolution, attempting something similar in a country like Germany during the same time period would have not only been a failure, but premature and anarchistic. Since such a revolution in most Western nations today would similarly fail or, in the event that they were to succeed, would cause unacceptable destruction of capital and therefore damage the economy too much. Reformism is the acceptable and Marxist approach to revolution in countries like the United States, or most EU member states. | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Reformism Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:44 am | |
| I believe in reform while waiting for the revolution. We must help the workers as much as we can. once we have the majority then we can smash the capitalist state. |
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mattabesta Chairman of the Supreme Council
Posts : 3936 Join date : 2007-12-23 Age : 29 Location : Iceland
| Subject: Re: Reformism Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:10 am | |
| - mononokifool wrote:
- I believe in reform while waiting for the revolution. We must help the workers as much as we can. once we have the majority then we can smash the capitalist state.
but if you have a majoraty it isn't a free market state, btw why do you say capitalist?? | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Reformism Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:36 am | |
| - mattabesta wrote:
- mononokifool wrote:
- I believe in reform while waiting for the revolution. We must help the workers as much as we can. once we have the majority then we can smash the capitalist state.
but if you have a majoraty it isn't a free market state, btw why do you say capitalist?? I lose respect for you the more you show your lack of knowledge about communism but continue to be passionate against it... the state exists to enforce the bourgeoisie's rule the state=armed forces of men that exist to deal with class antagonisms in society Capitalist state exists for the repression of the working class by the capitalist class Workers state exists for the repression of the capitalists(exploiters of labor) by the workers |
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Cyprian Uljanow World Republic Party Member
Posts : 690 Join date : 2008-03-25 Age : 45 Location : Wroclaw
| Subject: Re: Reformism Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:04 pm | |
| I support reformism whole heartably, it gives people a chance accept the system that slowly becomes reality, and also it doesn't require a Blood shed. And If thats not what it' about - sorry I really don't know much of hard theory, seeing getting a Marx book in Poland is as possible as getting a fair hourly wage. | |
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Renegade_Kautsky Worker of the World Republic
Posts : 363 Join date : 2008-02-16 Location : In the belly of the beast
| Subject: Re: Reformism Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:33 pm | |
| - Cyprian Uljanow wrote:
- I support reformism whole heartably, it gives people a chance accept the system that slowly becomes reality, and also it doesn't require a Blood shed. And If thats not what it' about - sorry I really don't know much of hard theory, seeing getting a Marx book in Poland is as possible as getting a fair hourly wage.
You can start here: http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/date/index.htm | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Reformism Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:08 pm | |
| here http://spartacist.org/reformism is all fine and dandy but if you do not link it with the call for socialist revolution it won't mean anything...and it'll be pulled back as soon as the ruling class gets the chance. Reforms aren't enough, simple as that |
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Watermelon ZEK in siberian gulag
Posts : 2650 Join date : 2008-04-05 Age : 30 Location : springfield, il
| Subject: Re: Reformism Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:36 pm | |
| Reformites think they can use the Bourgeois-controlled state to give the mop to the workers. Not how it works. The state is a ref;ection on the mode of production. SOcialist state, socialist government = soviet democracy. The bourgeois stae must be smashed and replaced by a workers state that is nothing like the old one. | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Reformism Mon Apr 21, 2008 2:45 pm | |
| Honestly Emy
i think they are just made because we stand by our principles very strongly |
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Watermelon ZEK in siberian gulag
Posts : 2650 Join date : 2008-04-05 Age : 30 Location : springfield, il
| Subject: Re: Reformism Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:03 pm | |
| Strong principles>no principles. "If you stand for nothing you will fall for anything." -Malcom X | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Reformism Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:06 pm | |
| - Pannekoek wrote:
- Strong principles>no principles. "If you stand for nothing you will fall for anything." -Malcom X
yeah thats pissing them off lol They want us to stand down when we criticize their reformism |
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Watermelon ZEK in siberian gulag
Posts : 2650 Join date : 2008-04-05 Age : 30 Location : springfield, il
| Subject: Re: Reformism Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:08 pm | |
| Maybe that's why they have posted in the last 7 posts. | |
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Cyprian Uljanow World Republic Party Member
Posts : 690 Join date : 2008-03-25 Age : 45 Location : Wroclaw
| Subject: Re: Reformism Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:36 pm | |
| By reformism I mean I want the state to slowly evolve in to Communism not a Borgouise controlled state - don't shove not my word up my throat. Thanks. Bye
And I said I only oppose a Violante Blood bath - as long as the revolution isn't a big Murder-fest I'm all cool with it. | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Reformism Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:34 pm | |
| - Cyprian Uljanow wrote:
- By reformism I mean I want the state to slowly evolve in to Communism not a Borgouise controlled state - don't shove not my word up my throat. Thanks. Bye
And I said I only oppose a Violante Blood bath - as long as the revolution isn't a big Murder-fest I'm all cool with it. You see, we all realize that a revolution needs to happen. We just dont want the shedding of unnecessary blood, once we have the majority then we can smash the state and only fight the states army. Im pretty sure we can all agree on that right. |
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Watermelon ZEK in siberian gulag
Posts : 2650 Join date : 2008-04-05 Age : 30 Location : springfield, il
| Subject: Re: Reformism Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:27 am | |
| No one wants unnecessary blood-shedding. If there's no resistanc, there's no blood. That won't happen so "there will be blood" | |
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Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: Reformism Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:37 am | |
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Watermelon ZEK in siberian gulag
Posts : 2650 Join date : 2008-04-05 Age : 30 Location : springfield, il
| Subject: Re: Reformism Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:39 am | |
| WE agree that there will be resistance so there will be blood? Sweet you're cooler than I thought. | |
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mattabesta Chairman of the Supreme Council
Posts : 3936 Join date : 2007-12-23 Age : 29 Location : Iceland
| Subject: Re: Reformism Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:51 am | |
| - MarxistFreeman wrote:
- mattabesta wrote:
- mononokifool wrote:
- I believe in reform while waiting for the revolution. We must help the workers as much as we can. once we have the majority then we can smash the capitalist state.
but if you have a majoraty it isn't a free market state, btw why do you say capitalist?? I lose respect for you the more you show your lack of knowledge about communism but continue to be passionate against it...
the state exists to enforce the bourgeoisie's rule
the state=armed forces of men that exist to deal with class antagonisms in society
Capitalist state exists for the repression of the working class by the capitalist class
Workers state exists for the repression of the capitalists(exploiters of labor) by the workers oh sorry I just didn't notice becuse i was opressing a worker sorry what did you say? | |
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Watermelon ZEK in siberian gulag
Posts : 2650 Join date : 2008-04-05 Age : 30 Location : springfield, il
| Subject: Re: Reformism Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:58 am | |
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mattabesta Chairman of the Supreme Council
Posts : 3936 Join date : 2007-12-23 Age : 29 Location : Iceland
| Subject: Re: Reformism Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:10 am | |
| - Pannekoek wrote:
- Lmao is that you?
LOL ya when I was 6 | |
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inkus2000 New Party Member
Posts : 541 Join date : 2008-03-31 Location : I woke up this morning and I dont know where I am.
| Subject: Re: Reformism Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:14 am | |
| - oligarch wrote:
- Reformism is just as acceptable a revolutionary theory as revolutionism. To claim that only one revolutionary tactic is valid or applicable is foolish and anti-Marxist, for example, While insurrection was the correct course of action is Russia during the Bolshevik Revolution, attempting something similar in a country like Germany during the same time period would have not only been a failure, but premature and anarchistic. Since such a revolution in most Western nations today would similarly fail or, in the event that they were to succeed, would cause unacceptable destruction of capital and therefore damage the economy too much. Reformism is the acceptable and Marxist approach to revolution in countries like the United States, or most EU member states.
I completely agree. Revolution is fine when the proper conditions exist anyone who thinks revolt in the developed world can succeed at this point in time is foolish. Revolution requires worker unification and sufficent econimic strain leading to class tensions. | |
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Watermelon ZEK in siberian gulag
Posts : 2650 Join date : 2008-04-05 Age : 30 Location : springfield, il
| Subject: Re: Reformism Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:17 am | |
| the first will come from the vanguard, second from the laws of capitalism first descovered by me before i died and came back alive. | |
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mattabesta Chairman of the Supreme Council
Posts : 3936 Join date : 2007-12-23 Age : 29 Location : Iceland
| Subject: Re: Reformism Tue Apr 22, 2008 2:18 am | |
| - inkus2000 wrote:
- oligarch wrote:
- Reformism is just as acceptable a revolutionary theory as revolutionism. To claim that only one revolutionary tactic is valid or applicable is foolish and anti-Marxist, for example, While insurrection was the correct course of action is Russia during the Bolshevik Revolution, attempting something similar in a country like Germany during the same time period would have not only been a failure, but premature and anarchistic. Since such a revolution in most Western nations today would similarly fail or, in the event that they were to succeed, would cause unacceptable destruction of capital and therefore damage the economy too much. Reformism is the acceptable and Marxist approach to revolution in countries like the United States, or most EU member states.
I completely agree. Revolution is fine when the proper conditions exist anyone who thinks revolt in the developed world can succeed at this point in time is foolish. Revolution requires worker unification and sufficent econimic strain leading to class tensions. aka very unlikely, right? | |
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Watermelon ZEK in siberian gulag
Posts : 2650 Join date : 2008-04-05 Age : 30 Location : springfield, il
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mattabesta Chairman of the Supreme Council
Posts : 3936 Join date : 2007-12-23 Age : 29 Location : Iceland
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