Hugo Chavez and the new Referendum

Do you think Hugo Chavez will try to pass the referendum again?

I believe he will make some changes to it and try it in a few years again.

Chavez is mad. Believe me before his term runs out he will either force himself into a position of total power or he will play puppeteer with the next prez.

mad , but people vote for him. Does election in venesuela are democratic or like in ussr?

comiescums wrote:

mad , but people vote for him. Does election in venesuela are democratic or like in ussr?

Nowhere are elections democratic so they're like everywhere else.

They're as democratic as can be. Chavez just tells the people what they want to hear, like populists everywhere do. But promises without results is lost ground. I am watching his economy-policies fail miserably and I pity his people.
At least I would have thought that someone, who once tried a coup d'etat should be banned from running for prez.
Well what to say lets all pray that not to many people will starve under Chavez.

Voice of Reason wrote:

They're as democratic as can be. Chavez just tells the people what they want to hear, like populists everywhere do. But promises without results is lost ground. I am watching his economy-policies fail miserably and I pity his people.
At least I would have thought that someone, who once tried a coup d'etat should be banned from running for prez.
Well what to say lets all pray that not to many people will starve under Chavez.

But Chavez know that his country have very much oil , so his people do not starve i think.

ever tried to eat oil?
just kidding
oil doesnt last forever, and if he doesnt join some "food for oil" UN-Programme they will starve.

I think they wont!

And they broadened their cooperation with Cuba as far as I know. This improves their health care standard a lot!

great! they will starve healthy

They have enough food to feed themselves. And they can use their crops to create fuels too!

no country can sustain itself all alone
not even the british empire of 1900 could.
trade is the basis for wealth and security Chavez will need more allies than castro to survive

Voice of Reason wrote:

no country can sustain itself all alone
not even the british empire of 1900 could.
trade is the basis for wealth and security Chavez will need more allies than castro to survive

On a capitalists framework, you're right, on a communist framework, no.
The British Empire of 1900 was exploiting all its territories.

Countries like USSR or China have great autharchic potencial, specially a country like USSR.

As for Chavez... well... Venezuela is a small country it can hardly self-supply, but, as long as it trade oil they'll have enough to eat and sustain its Venezuelan State Capitalism.

it's a socalis cuntry not a sate based capatalism stuff your saying

mattabesta wrote:

it's a socalis cuntry not a sate based capatalism stuff your saying

Once again: Socialism creates the infrastruture of production and distribution to eliminate the use of capitalism.

Venezuela hasn't done it, so it's an offially declared Socialist state which defacto is a State Capitalism. Or in other words, it's a state that claims to be socialist but is capitalist.

Let me use this analogy and I hope you may understand it: If I dress like a woman and take a lot of female hormons and I declare myself a woman doesn't actually make me one. Declarations are one thing, facts may be other.

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

it's a socalis cuntry not a sate based capatalism stuff your saying

Once again: Socialism creates the infrastruture of production and distribution to eliminate the use of capitalism.

Venezuela hasn't done it, so it's an offially declared Socialist state which defacto is a State Capitalism. Or in other words, it's a state that claims to be socialist but is capitalist.

Let me use this analogy and I hope you may understand it: If I dress like a woman and take a lot of female hormons and I declare myself a woman doesn't actually make me one. Declarations are one thing, facts may be other.

But people still call you a woman because if you do the whole..umm... can you find a better analogy..because thats an awkward subject and Legally if you get a sex change you are the new sex.

Diogritor wrote:

But people still call you a woman because if you do the whole..umm... can you find a better analogy..because thats an awkward subject and Legally if you get a sex change you are the new sex.

Endocrinologically you're not no matter how well done you get a vaginoplasty and no matter how much estrogen you consume... but well maybe the analogy fails on one thing: you're either born a woman or a man (or sometimes both...) while communism is something to be built.

Let's see, you can dress yourself as a doctor, order someone to make a false medicine title, open your consultory and pretend to check and diagnose patients and claim you're a doctor, but, that doesn't make you a doctor. (I don't like very much this analogy but well...)

socalism is both a way of governace and economical.
socalist parties can be capatalist.
Capitalism generally refers to an economic and social system in which the means of production are predominantly privately owned and operated for profit, and in which investments, distribution, income, production and pricing of goods and services are determined through the operation of a market economy(demand and supply).
socalism can be wanting lower taxes for the poor better education and health ect.
Hugo is more of a man how tinks of himself as the man how will lead venuzuvela to glory

mattabesta wrote:

socalism is both a way of governace and economical.
socalist parties can be capatalist.
Capitalism generally refers to an economic and social system in which the means of production are predominantly privately owned and operated for profit, and in which investments, distribution, income, production and pricing of goods and services are determined through the operation of a market economy(demand and supply).

For capitalism to exist private enterprise is not unexpendable. Even if all the enterprises are owned by the state, as long as the society runs on money, its exchange for goods and for the satisfaction of needs in general, as long as market exists, as long as stores where you go and buy things exist, there will be capitalism. Doesn't matter if there are 1,000,000 owners or the state is the sole owner. That's capitalism and capitalism needs to be profit oriented unless you want your economy to collapse.

mattabesta wrote:

socalism can be wanting lower taxes for the poor better education and health ect.

No, socialism is not limited to that. That falls in populism.

mattabesta wrote:

Hugo is more of a man how tinks of himself as the man how will lead venuzuvela to glory

Or maybe he's partially well intentioned... either way capitalism exists in Venezuela.

**** THIS we'r sopposed to be talking about hugo's first defeat

Voice of Reason wrote:

They're as democratic as can be. Chavez just tells the people what they want to hear, like populists everywhere do. But promises without results is lost ground. I am watching his economy-policies fail miserably and I pity his people.
At least I would have thought that someone, who once tried a coup d'etat should be banned from running for prez.
Well what to say lets all pray that not to many people will starve under Chavez.

But he is actually improving the life in Venezuela. He created jobs etc.

Kenzu wrote:

Voice of Reason wrote:

They're as democratic as can be. Chavez just tells the people what they want to hear, like populists everywhere do. But promises without results is lost ground. I am watching his economy-policies fail miserably and I pity his people.
At least I would have thought that someone, who once tried a coup d'etat should be banned from running for prez.
Well what to say lets all pray that not to many people will starve under Chavez.

But he is actually improving the life in Venezuela. He created jobs etc.

yeah but he's chewing up venuzuvelas money

[quote="mattabesta"]

Kenzu wrote:

Voice of Reason wrote:

They're as democratic as can be. Chavez just tells the people what they want to hear, like populists everywhere do. But promises without results is lost ground. I am watching his economy-policies fail miserably and I pity his people.
At least I would have thought that someone, who once tried a coup d'etat should be banned from running for prez.
Well what to say lets all pray that not to many people will starve under Chavez.

But he is actually improving the life in Venezuela. He created jobs etc.

yeah but he's chewing up venuzuvelas money[/quote
how so?

[quote="ilych"]

mattabesta wrote:

Kenzu wrote:

Voice of Reason wrote:

They're as democratic as can be. Chavez just tells the people what they want to hear, like populists everywhere do. But promises without results is lost ground. I am watching his economy-policies fail miserably and I pity his people.
At least I would have thought that someone, who once tried a coup d'etat should be banned from running for prez.
Well what to say lets all pray that not to many people will starve under Chavez.

But he is actually improving the life in Venezuela. He created jobs etc.

yeah but he's chewing up venuzuvelas money[/quote
how so?

by imposing useless reformes wich only cost money

[quote="mattabesta"]

ilych wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

Kenzu wrote:

Voice of Reason wrote:

They're as democratic as can be. Chavez just tells the people what they want to hear, like populists everywhere do. But promises without results is lost ground. I am watching his economy-policies fail miserably and I pity his people.
At least I would have thought that someone, who once tried a coup d'etat should be banned from running for prez.
Well what to say lets all pray that not to many people will starve under Chavez.

But he is actually improving the life in Venezuela. He created jobs etc.

yeah but he's chewing up venuzuvelas money[/quote
how so?

by imposing useless reformes wich only cost money

Lots of them were rather inefficient and wasted money of programs that didn't accomplish their goals but now he's reforming the reforms so this will no longer be the case.

[quote="oligarch"]

mattabesta wrote:

ilych wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

Kenzu wrote:

Voice of Reason wrote:

They're as democratic as can be. Chavez just tells the people what they want to hear, like populists everywhere do. But promises without results is lost ground. I am watching his economy-policies fail miserably and I pity his people.
At least I would have thought that someone, who once tried a coup d'etat should be banned from running for prez.
Well what to say lets all pray that not to many people will starve under Chavez.

But he is actually improving the life in Venezuela. He created jobs etc.

yeah but he's chewing up venuzuvelas money[/quote
how so?

by imposing useless reformes wich only cost money

Lots of them were rather inefficient and wasted money of programs that didn't accomplish their goals but now he's reforming the reforms so this will no longer be the case.

possably but he's likely to lose pover in the nex elections wich will be for the provices.