Hugo Chavez and the new Referendum

[quote="mattabesta"]

oligarch wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

ilych wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

Kenzu wrote:

Voice of Reason wrote:

They're as democratic as can be. Chavez just tells the people what they want to hear, like populists everywhere do. But promises without results is lost ground. I am watching his economy-policies fail miserably and I pity his people.
At least I would have thought that someone, who once tried a coup d'etat should be banned from running for prez.
Well what to say lets all pray that not to many people will starve under Chavez.

But he is actually improving the life in Venezuela. He created jobs etc.

yeah but he's chewing up venuzuvelas money[/quote
how so?

by imposing useless reformes wich only cost money

Lots of them were rather inefficient and wasted money of programs that didn't accomplish their goals but now he's reforming the reforms so this will no longer be the case.

possably but he's likely to lose pover in the nex elections wich will be for the provices.

No, now that he's forming a new coalition rather than trying to get all of the pro-Chavez parties to be absorbed into the the PSVU and taken a different approach to his reforms his base will be renewed.

[quote="oligarch"]

mattabesta wrote:

oligarch wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

ilych wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

Kenzu wrote:

Voice of Reason wrote:

They're as democratic as can be. Chavez just tells the people what they want to hear, like populists everywhere do. But promises without results is lost ground. I am watching his economy-policies fail miserably and I pity his people.
At least I would have thought that someone, who once tried a coup d'etat should be banned from running for prez.
Well what to say lets all pray that not to many people will starve under Chavez.

But he is actually improving the life in Venezuela. He created jobs etc.

yeah but he's chewing up venuzuvelas money[/quote
how so?

by imposing useless reformes wich only cost money

Lots of them were rather inefficient and wasted money of programs that didn't accomplish their goals but now he's reforming the reforms so this will no longer be the case.

possably but he's likely to lose pover in the nex elections wich will be for the provices.

No, now that he's forming a new coalition rather than trying to get all of the pro-Chavez parties to be absorbed into the the PSVU and taken a different approach to his reforms his base will be renewed.

so he isn't absorbing the coalistion into one party?

Nope, him trying to absorb smaller parties was one of the reasons he lost the referendum.

If you try to look at the results of the election by county/region, you'll see that the big cities, the most populated areas were where he lost big. That's only a small area. However, the population of those areas were able to overwhelm the rest of Venezuela.


It might just be that those living in huge population centers are more impoverished and more educated than those in the countryside and therefore are more likely to vote for their rights.

Jinnyjinster wrote:

If you try to look at the results of the election by county/region, you'll see that the big cities, the most populated areas were where he lost big. That's only a small area. However, the population of those areas were able to overwhelm the rest of Venezuela.


It might just be that those living in huge population centers are more impoverished and more educated than those in the countryside and therefore are more likely to vote for their rights.

The opposition is based in urban centers and was able to spread its lies about the reforms better there but thats not the real reason he lost.

oligarch wrote:

Jinnyjinster wrote:

If you try to look at the results of the election by county/region, you'll see that the big cities, the most populated areas were where he lost big. That's only a small area. However, the population of those areas were able to overwhelm the rest of Venezuela.


It might just be that those living in huge population centers are more impoverished and more educated than those in the countryside and therefore are more likely to vote for their rights.

The opposition is based in urban centers and was able to spread its lies about the reforms better there but thats not the real reason he lost.

do you even know what the refundum includes and pleas be honest.

mattabesta wrote:

do you even know what the refundum includes and pleas be honest.

I do and it would actually have extended democracy. The measures that the opposition called "oppressive" were only there so another US backed military coup could be more easily repelled.

oligarch wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

do you even know what the refundum includes and pleas be honest.

I do and it would actually have extended democracy. The measures that the opposition called "oppressive" were only there so another US backed military coup could be more easily repelled.

umm here is the refundum:
Indefinite re-election of president, term increased from 6 to 7 years
Central Bank autonomy ended
Structure of country's administrative districts reorganised
Maximum working day cut from 8 hours to 6
Voting age lowered from 18 to 16
Social security benefits extended to workers in informal sector

mattabesta wrote:

I do and it would actually have extended democracy. The measures that the opposition called "oppressive" were only there so another US backed military coup could be more easily repelled.

umm here is the refundum:
Indefinite re-election of president, term increased from 6 to 7 years
Central Bank autonomy ended
Structure of country's administrative districts reorganised
Maximum working day cut from 8 hours to 6
Voting age lowered from 18 to 16
Social security benefits extended to workers in informal sector[/quote]

There were several dozen other proposals were in the referendum such as giving mush of the political power to locally elected community, worker's, and student's councils. Several of the reforms you mentioned were good.

oligarch wrote:

mattabesta wrote:

I do and it would actually have extended democracy. The measures that the opposition called "oppressive" were only there so another US backed military coup could be more easily repelled.

umm here is the refundum:
Indefinite re-election of president, term increased from 6 to 7 years
Central Bank autonomy ended
Structure of country's administrative districts reorganised
Maximum working day cut from 8 hours to 6
Voting age lowered from 18 to 16
Social security benefits extended to workers in informal sector

There were several dozen other proposals were in the referendum such as giving mush of the political power to locally elected community, worker's, and student's councils. Several of the reforms you mentioned were good.[/quote]
I know but the real thing was the lengthening of the term wich was only to allow chaves to cuntinu his rule for longer.