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 Deportation of Stalin into Gulag

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Antifa
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 31, 2008 5:03 pm

It is common to talk of communism as some kind of dream and that certain revolutionaries have somehow 'destroyed the dream' through their practice. This marks the difference between idealism and scientific materialism. Stalin emerged at a time when progress was confronted by the most brutal reactionary ideology, fascism had declared war on the workers and peasants of the world.

At the time of the anti-fascist struggle, there was little talk of Stalin being wrong in his crushing of the Hitlerite regime, rather when the war ended, the western capitalist powers sought to present Stalin as something akin to Hitler, coverring up their own collaboration and sympathy for fascism.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 31, 2008 5:06 pm

And even claiming to have "killed the wrong pig". Refering to their position against Germany in mid-war as mistaken and rather having been convenient to attack USSR.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 31, 2008 7:54 pm

stalin maybe saved the motherland, but he damned the communism, and they will be damned for centrys now
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 04, 2008 8:05 pm

History marches on, and it is necessary that we learn from Stalin's legacy. Certainly he made mistakes, but he made them at a time of difficult decisions and triumphed over all our enemies. Therefore he remains a comrade of all communists and it is up to us to ensure that our practice avoids his errors.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 04, 2008 9:34 pm

Antifa wrote:
History marches on, and it is necessary that we learn from Stalin's legacy. Certainly he made mistakes, but he made them at a time of difficult decisions and triumphed over all our enemies. Therefore he remains a comrade of all communists and it is up to us to ensure that our practice avoids his errors.

like exporting grain and letting the workers starve?
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 04, 2008 10:29 pm

mattabesta wrote:

like exporting grain and letting the workers starve?

Whatever the eror migt be he means. I think he was pretty clear.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 04, 2008 10:48 pm

WARNING OFF-TOPIC MESSAGE: Mattabesta u put Bunny in your singute ^_^
I should go on his good side if i was you evry one else :O!
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 04, 2008 11:58 pm

Antifa wrote:
History marches on, and it is necessary that we learn from Stalin's legacy. Certainly he made mistakes, but he made them at a time of difficult decisions and triumphed over all our enemies. Therefore he remains a comrade of all communists and it is up to us to ensure that our practice avoids his errors.

Agreed. Not only do communists say this, but even some reactionary capitalists as well. However, as humanity as a whole, says this...

Humans must learn from the past.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 05, 2008 12:51 am

Jeiro Sijakeuigwan wrote:
Antifa wrote:
History marches on, and it is necessary that we learn from Stalin's legacy. Certainly he made mistakes, but he made them at a time of difficult decisions and triumphed over all our enemies. Therefore he remains a comrade of all communists and it is up to us to ensure that our practice avoids his errors.

Agreed. Not only do communists say this, but even some reactionary capitalists as well. However, as humanity as a whole, says this...

Humans must learn from the past.
really jeiro?
of course we learn from the past but, the only reason that stalin is even created with the swelling of the soviet economy(IE five years plan etc)
is because he stole his plans from accomplished revolutionaries.
how i wish i was my great grandpa so i could have shot him in the civil war.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 05, 2008 6:05 am

beatnikzach wrote:

really jeiro?
of course we learn from the past but, the only reason that stalin is even created with the swelling of the soviet economy(IE five years plan etc)
is because he stole his plans from accomplished revolutionaries.
how i wish i was my great grandpa so i could have shot him in the civil war.
omg if the Bolsheviks would have stayed in control i would be living in russia right now.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 05, 2008 9:51 pm

Quote :
of course we learn from the past but, the only reason that stalin is even created with the swelling of the soviet economy(IE five years plan etc)
is because he stole his plans from accomplished revolutionaries.
how i wish i was my great grandpa so i could have shot him in the civil war.

Stalin was pretty handy with a Mauser, he may well have outgunned you.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 05, 2008 10:32 pm

I think Hitler was even better then Stalin ..
U probly think like "OMG wtf u nasi!"
But why?
Stalin killed more ppl.
Hitler:20 million
Stalin:60 million.

And with the imprealism thing, Sovjet union toke over Finland , why?
To get some land and little islands.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 05, 2008 11:03 pm

CoolKidX wrote:
I think Hitler was even better then Stalin ..
U probly think like "OMG wtf u nasi!"
But why?
Stalin killed more ppl.
Hitler:20 million
Stalin:60 million.

CoolKid, it doesn't matter how many times it is explained to you right? It's like arguing with a wall...

First of all, if deaths are to be attached to Hitler for the conflicts he started it would be like this:
27 million Soviets,
6 million Poles,
About 2 million Yugoslavs.

With those figures its enough to debunk the claim that Hitler killed 20 million.

Second, Hitler caused that death-toll in a 6 years period.

Now, there is absolutely NO EVIDENCE that Stalin was responsible for the death of 60 million people. Every single account is distorted or conveniently combines catastrophes and blames them on Stalinism. Most of them use the following logic: Stalin was in charge of the USSR from 1927 to 1953. During that period x number of people died of pneumonia. Since Stalin was in charge, Stalin killed them.

Critics of Stalin often blame on him death tolls as high as 100 million people, most often from 40-60 million and other more conservative 20 million. They seem to think people are like chicken or something like that. Like if you could kill 100 million people and produce no damned evidence. If you kill 100 million people in a 184 million people country you're killing most of its population, practically all those that survived would have a link with those killed. It would be simply impossible to perform such a manslaughter without people knowing it and moreover collaborating.

CoolKidX wrote:

And with the imprealism thing, Sovjet union toke over Finland , why?
To get some land and little islands.

Yes, they took over Finland. That's why Finnish always remember December 30th 1991 as the day they got their Independence from the USSR.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 05, 2008 11:57 pm

stalin death toll.

incompitance during early barbarossa: 2 million
gulags and political enimies: 0,5 mil

and ppl killed for the good: He derogatorily referred to farmers who refused his reforms as "kulaks", a class of rich peasant which had in actual fact been wiped out by World War I; millions were killed, exiled to Siberia, or died of starvation after their land, homes, meager possessions, and ability to earn an existence from the land were taken to fulfill Stalin's vision of massive "factory farms".[4] While the Soviet Union transformed from an agrarian economy to a major industrial powerhouse in a short span of time, millions of people died from hardships and famine that occurred as a result of the severe economic upheaval and party policies.[5][6][7]
: 2 million

fanime:
The death toll from famine in the Soviet Union at this time is estimated at between five and ten million people.
so about 5-10

we get a total of 9,5-14,5 mil not pretty numbers.



------------------------------------------



ok hitler if we talk genocide then 15-20 mil if we talk executed POW and the pwning of the soviet army we go above 30 mil.


-----------------------------------------



mao probably gonna top them both
ok
opening:
However, many of Mao's socio-political programs such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution are blamed by critics from both within and outside China for causing severe damage to the culture, society, economy and foreign relations of China, as well as a probable death toll in the tens of millions.[3][4][5]

insanaty:

In Jiangxi, Mao's authoritative domination, especially that of the military force, was challenged by the Jiangxi branch of the CPC and military officers. Mao's opponents, among whom the most prominent was Li Wenlin, the founder of the CPC's branch and Red Army in Jiangxi, were against Mao's land policies and proposals to reform the local party branch and army leadership. Mao reacted first by accusing the opponents of opportunism and kulakism and then set off a series of systematic suppressions of them.[15] It is reported that horrible forms of torture and killing took place. Jung Chang and Jon Halliday claim that victims were subjected to a red-hot gun-rod being rammed into the anus, and that there were many cases of cutting open the stomach and scooping out the heart.[16] The estimated number of the victims amounted to several thousands and could be as high as 186,000.[17] Critics accuse Mao's authority in Jiangxi was secured and reassured through the revolutionary terrorism, or red terrorism.
about 50,000

n othere suff:
Mao’s first political campaigns after founding the People’s Republic were land reform and the suppression of counter-revolutionaries, which centered on mass executions, often before organized crowds. These campaigns of mass repression targeted former KMT officials, businessmen, former employees of Western companies, intellectuals whose loyalty was suspect, and significant numbers of rural gentry.[21] The U.S. State department in 1976 estimated that there may have been a million killed in the land reform, 800,000 killed in the counterrevolutionary campaign.[22] Mao himself claimed a total of 700,000 killed during the years 1949–53.[23] However, because there was a policy to select "at least one landlord, and usually several, in virtually every village for public execution",[24] 1 million deaths seems to be an absolute minimum, and many authors agree on a figure of between 2 million and 5 million dead.[25][26] In addition, at least 1.5 million people were sent to "reform through labour" camps.[27] Mao’s personal role in ordering mass executions is undeniable.[28][29] He defended these killings as necessary for the securing of power.[30]
ca. 2-5 mil

moar "powere securing":
Programs pursued during this time include the Hundred Flowers Campaign, in which Mao indicated his supposed willingness to consider different opinions about how China should be governed. Given the freedom to express themselves, liberal and intellectual Chinese began opposing the Communist Party and questioning its leadership. This was initially tolerated and encouraged. After a few months, Mao's government reversed its policy and persecuted those, totalling perhaps 500,000, who criticized, and were merely alleged to have criticized, the Party in what is called the Anti-Rightist Movement.
0.5 mil

fanime:
The net result, which was compounded in some areas by drought and in others by floods, was that the rural peasants were not left enough to eat and many millions starved to death in what is thought to be the largest famine in human history. This famine was a direct cause of the death of tens of millions of Chinese peasants between 1959 and 1962. Further, many children who became emaciated and malnourished during years of hardship and struggle for survival, died shortly after the Great Leap Forward came to an end in 1962 (Spence, 553).
Nevertheless, Banister concluded that the official data implied that around 15 million excess deaths incurred in China during 1958-61 and that based on her modelling of Chinese demographics during the period and taking account of assumed underreporting during the famine years, the figure was around 30 million. The official statistic is 20 million deaths, as given by Hu Yaobang.[3] Various other sources have put the figure between 20 and 72 million.[32]
so 20-55 mil (72 is definitly an exxageration)

cultual killins as I call them:
It is estimated that hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, perished in the violence of the Cultural Revolution
and what mao said:
don't attempt to save them! . . . China is such a populous nation, it is not as if we cannot do without a few people."[34]
about 350,000-1,5 mil
so lol mao pwns with min: 22,900,000
and max: 62,100,000
probably 40,000,000
I took LOWS in all three so no "that's such an exageration" I was suprised my the huge number mao may have killed and stalin hitler is much harder to do becuse I mean it depends on your definition of killing.

I appeasrs as if mao worshipper zealut need sources:


1. ^ "Mao Zedong" (HTML) (in English). The Oxford Companion to Politics of the World. Retrieved on 2008-08-23.
2. ^ Time 100: Mao Zedong By Jonathan D. Spence, April 13 1998.
3. ^ a b Short, Philip (2001). Mao: A Life. Owl Books, 761.
4. ^ Chang, Jung and Halliday, Jon. Mao: The Unknown Story. Jonathan Cape, London, 2005. ISBN 0224071262 p. 3
5. ^ Rummel, R. J. China’s Bloody Century: Genocide and Mass Murder Since 1900 Transaction Publishers, 1991. ISBN 088738417X p. 205 In light of recent evidence, Rummel has increased Mao's democide toll to 77 million.
6. ^ Burying Mao: Chinese Politics in the Age of Deng Xiaoping by Richard Baum
7. ^ Kahn, Joseph (2006-09-01). "Where’s Mao? Chinese Revise History Books". The New York Times.
8. ^ Short, Philip (2001). Mao: A Life. Owl Books, 630. ISBN 0805066381. “Mao had an extraordinary mix of talents: he was visionary, statesman, political and military strategist of genius, philosopher and poet.”
9. ^ Feigon, Lee (2002). Mao: A Reinterpretation. Chicago: Ivan R. Dee, 17. ISBN 1566635225.
10. ^ Hollingworth, Clare, Mao and the men against him (Jonathan Cape, London: 1985), p. 45.
11. ^ a b 毛泽东生平大事(1893-1976) (Major event chronology of Mao Zedong (1893-1976), People's Daily.
12. ^ a b "'Report on an investigation of the peasant movement in Hunan' Mao Zedong 1927".
13. ^ Chunhou, Zhang. C. Mao Zedong As Poet and Revolutionary Leader: Social and Historical Perspectives. ISBN 0739104063.
14. ^ "'Analysis of the classes in Chinese society' Mao Zedong 1927.".
15. ^ Lynch, Michael J (2004). Mao. ISBN 0415215773.
16. ^ Jung Chang and Jon Halliday. Mao: The Unknown Story. pp 99 & 100
17. ^ Jean-Luc Domenach. Chine: L'archipel oublie. (China: The Forgotten Archipelago.) Fayard, 1992. ISBN 2213025819 pg 47
18. ^ Fairbank, John K; Albert Feuerwerker. The Cambridge History of China (vol. 13, pt. 2). Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0521243386.
19. ^ Ying-kwong Wou, Odoric (1994). Mobilizing the Masses: Building Revolution in Henan. Stanford University Press. ISBN 0804721424.
20. ^ a b "Willy Lam: China's Own Historical Revisionism", History News Network, 11 August 2005. Retrieved 15 May 2006.
21. ^ Steven W. Mosher. China Misperceived: American Illusions and Chinese Reality. Basic Books, 1992. ISBN 0465098134 pp 72, 73
22. ^ Stephen Rosskamm Shalom. Deaths in China Due to Communism. Center for Asian Studies Arizona State University, 1984. ISBN 0939252112 pg 24
23. ^ Jung Chang and Jon Halliday. Mao: The Unknown Story. pg 337: "Mao claimed that the total number executed was 700,000, but this did not include those beaten or tortured to death in the post-1949 land reform, which would at the very least be as many again. Then there were suicides, which, based on several local inquiries, were very probably about equal to the number of those killed." Also cited in Mao Zedong, by Jonathan Spence, as cited [1].
24. ^ Twitchett, Denis; John K. Fairbank. The Cambridge history of China. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 052124336X. Retrieved on 2008-08-23.
25. ^ Stephane Courtois, et al. The Black Book of Communism: Crimes, Terror, Repression. Harvard University Press, 1999. ISBN 0674076087 pg. 479
26. ^ Estimates, sources and calculations from R.J. Rummel’s China’s Bloody Century: Genocide and Mass Murder Since 1900 (See lines 1 through 90.)
27. ^ Short, Philip (2001). Mao: A Life. Owl Books, 436. ISBN 0805066381. “At least a million-and-a-half more disappeared into the newly established 'reform through labour' camps, purpose-built to accommodate them.”
28. ^ "Commentary transferred to Huang Jing regarding the supplementary plan to suppress counterrevolutionaries in Tianjin".
29. ^ Changyu, Li. "Mao's "Killing Quotas." Human Rights in China (HRIC). September 26, 2005, at Shandong University]".
30. ^ Brown, Jeremy. "Terrible Honeymoon: Struggling with the Problem of Terror in Early 1950s China.".
31. ^ Chang, Jung; Halliday, Jon. 2005. Mao: The Unknown Story. New York: Knopf. 410.
32. ^ a b "Source List and Detailed Death Tolls for the Twentieth Century Hemoclysm". Historical Atlas of the Twentieth Century. Retrieved on 2008-08-23.
33. ^ a b c Chang, Jung and Jon Halliday, Mao: The Unknown Story (2006), pp. 568, 579.
34. ^ MacFarquhar, Roderick; Schoenhals, Michael (2006). Mao's Last Revolution. Harvard University Press, p. 110. ISBN 0674023323.
35. ^ Ion Mihai Pacepa (November 28, 2006). "The Kremlin’s Killing Ways". National Review Online. Retrieved on 2008-08-23.
36. ^ "China After Mao's Death: Nation of Rumor and Uncertainty", New York Times (October 6, 1976). Retrieved on 2007-07-21. "Hong Kong, October 5, 1976. With no word on the fate of the body of Mao Tsetung, almost a month after his death, rumors are beginning to percolate in China, much as they did following the death of Prime Minister Chou En-lai..."
37. ^ "Cult of Mao". library.thinkquest.org. Retrieved on 2008-08-23. “This remark of Mao seems to have elements of truth but it is false. He confuses the worship of truth with a personality cult, despite there being an essential difference between them. But this remark played a role in helping to promote the personality cult that gradually arose in the CCP.”
38. ^ Lu, Xing. Rhetoric of the Chinese Cultural Revolution, Contributor Thomas W. Benson, University of South Carolina Press, 147. ISBN 1570035431. “Some continue to worship Mao at their family altars, praying to him for peace and safety ... thousands of people visit the temple each day burning incense and kowtowing to images of Mao”
39. ^ Michael Lynch. Mao (Routledge Historical Biographies). Routledge, 2004. p. 230: "The People’s Republic of China under Mao exhibited the oppressive tendencies that were discernible in all the major absolutist regimes of the twentieth century. There are obvious parallels between Mao’s China, Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia. Each of these regimes witnessed deliberately ordered mass ‘cleansing’ and extermination."
40. ^ MacFarquhar, Roderick and Schoenhals, Michael. Mao's Last Revolution. Harvard University Press, 2006. ISBN 0674023323 p. 471: "Together with Joseph Stalin and Adolf Hitler, Mao appears destined to go down in history as one of the great tyrants of the twentieth century."
41. ^ "Counting the Bodies - Noam Chomsky" (HTML) (in English). Spectrezine (Spectre Magazine online). Retrieved on 2008-08-23.
42. ^ Jackson, Karl D. Cambodia, 1975-1978: Rendezvous with Death. Princeton University Press, 219. ISBN 069102541X.
43. ^ "Portraits of Sun Yat-sen, Deng Xiaoping proposed adding to RMB notes" (HTML) (in English). People's Daily Online (2006-03-13). Retrieved on 2008-08-23.
44. ^ Kahn, Joseph (2006-09-02). "Where’s Mao? Chinese Revise History Books", New York Times. Retrieved on 2007-02-28.
45. ^ Biographical Sketches in The Private Life of Chairman Mao
46. ^ "Stepping into history" (HTML) (in English). China Daily (2003-11-23). Retrieved on 2008-08-23.
47. ^ The Long March, by Ed Jocelyn and Andrew McEwen. Constable 2006
48. ^ "Stefan Landsberger's Chinese Propaganda Poster Pages-Mao Zedong Thought<!- Bot generated title ->". Retrieved on 2008-08-23.
49. ^ "100 years<!- Bot generated title ->". Retrieved on 2008-08-23.
50. ^ Yen, Yuehping (2005). Calligraphy and Power in Contemporary Chinese Society. Routledge, 2.
51. ^ "首届毛体书法邀请赛精品纷呈" (HTML) (in Chinese). People.com (2006-09-11).

and the like to wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao#References


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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 05, 2008 11:59 pm

Zealut on the Finland thing,yea they did iprilism to so stop whining about USA and the EU countries being so impralists scum, your precius "not killing" USSR did it to.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Sep 06, 2008 12:00 am

CoolKidX wrote:
Zealut on the Finland thing,yea they did iprilism to so stop whining about USA and the EU countries being so impralists scum, your precius "not killing" USSR did it to.

to him imperilism is only peformable by burgeons or something.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Sep 06, 2008 6:44 am

mattabesta wrote:
stalin death toll.

incompitance during early barbarossa: 2 million

That cannot be completely blamed on him, so it doesn't count.

mattabesta wrote:

gulags and political enimies: 0,5 mil

The official soviet record is around 750,000.

mattabesta wrote:

and ppl killed for the good: He derogatorily referred to farmers who refused his reforms as "kulaks", a class of rich peasant which had in actual fact been wiped out by World War I; millions were killed, exiled to Siberia, or died of starvation after their land, homes, meager possessions, and ability to earn an existence from the land were taken to fulfill Stalin's vision of massive "factory farms".[4] While the Soviet Union transformed from an agrarian economy to a major industrial powerhouse in a short span of time, millions of people died from hardships and famine that occurred as a result of the severe economic upheaval and party policies.[5][6][7]
: 2 million

fanime:
The death toll from famine in the Soviet Union at this time is estimated at between five and ten million people.
so about 5-10

we get a total of 9,5-14,5 mil not pretty numbers.

It's always very important to disregard the context. USSR inherited the hardships generated by WWI, Revolution and Civil War. That drains a lot of workforce and resources. Aside from that you get 3 years of droughts.

And yes, there was a repression against landowners, a necesary repression. You don't negociate with your enemy.



------------------------------------------


mattabesta wrote:

ok hitler if we talk genocide then 15-20 mil if we talk executed POW and the pwning of the soviet army we go above 30 mil.

Hitler can be actually held responsible for most of the deaths in the European Scenary of the WWII since he started the war.


-----------------------------------------


mattabesta wrote:

mao probably gonna top them both
ok
opening:
However, many of Mao's socio-political programs such as the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution are blamed by critics from both within and outside China for causing severe damage to the culture, society, economy and foreign relations of China, as well as a probable death toll in the tens of millions.[3][4][5]
insanaty:

In Jiangxi, Mao's authoritative domination, especially that of the military force, was challenged by the Jiangxi branch of the CPC and military officers. Mao's opponents, among whom the most prominent was Li Wenlin, the founder of the CPC's branch and Red Army in Jiangxi, were against Mao's land policies and proposals to reform the local party branch and army leadership. Mao reacted first by accusing the opponents of opportunism and kulakism and then set off a series of systematic suppressions of them.[15] It is reported that horrible forms of torture and killing took place. Jung Chang and Jon Halliday claim that victims were subjected to a red-hot gun-rod being rammed into the anus, and that there were many cases of

[quote="mattabesta]cutting open the stomach and scooping out the heart.[16]


This ought to be a joke... or it is poorly written or its written by someone with no idea of anatomy...

mattabesta wrote:

The estimated number of the victims amounted to several thousands and could be as high as 186,000.[17] Critics accuse Mao's authority in Jiangxi was secured and reassured through the revolutionary terrorism, or red terrorism.
about 50,000

n othere suff:
Mao’s first political campaigns after founding the People’s Republic were land reform and the suppression of counter-revolutionaries, which centered on mass executions, often before organized crowds. These campaigns of mass repression targeted former KMT officials, businessmen, former employees of Western companies, intellectuals whose loyalty was suspect, and significant numbers of rural gentry.[21] The U.S. State department in 1976 estimated that there may have been a million killed in the land reform, 800,000 killed in the counterrevolutionary campaign.[22] Mao himself claimed a total of 700,000 killed during the years 1949–53.[23] However, because there was a policy to select "at least one landlord, and usually several, in virtually every village for public execution",[24] 1 million deaths seems to be an absolute minimum, and many authors agree on a figure of between 2 million and 5 million dead.[25][26] In addition, at least 1.5 million people were sent to "reform through labour" camps.[27] Mao’s personal role in ordering mass executions is undeniable.[28][29] He defended these killings as necessary for the securing of power.[30]
ca. 2-5 mil

moar "powere securing":
Programs pursued during this time include the Hundred Flowers Campaign, in which Mao indicated his supposed willingness to consider different opinions about how China should be governed. Given the freedom to express themselves, liberal and intellectual Chinese began opposing the Communist Party and questioning its leadership. This was initially tolerated and encouraged. After a few months, Mao's government reversed its policy and persecuted those, totalling perhaps 500,000, who criticized, and were merely alleged to have criticized, the Party in what is called the Anti-Rightist Movement.
0.5 mil

fanime:
The net result, which was compounded in some areas by drought and in others by floods, was that the rural peasants were not left enough to eat and many millions starved to death in what is thought to be the largest famine in human history. This famine was a direct cause of the death of tens of millions of Chinese peasants between 1959 and 1962. Further, many children who became emaciated and malnourished during years of hardship and struggle for survival, died shortly after the Great Leap Forward came to an end in 1962 (Spence, 553).
Nevertheless, Banister concluded that the official data implied that around 15 million excess deaths incurred in China during 1958-61 and that based on her modelling of Chinese demographics during the period and taking account of assumed underreporting during the famine years, the figure was around 30 million. The official statistic is 20 million deaths, as given by Hu Yaobang.[3] Various other sources have put the figure between 20 and 72 million.[32]
so 20-55 mil (72 is definitly an exxageration)

cultual killins as I call them:
It is estimated that hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions, perished in the violence of the Cultural Revolution
and what mao said:
don't attempt to save them! . . . China is such a populous nation, it is not as if we cannot do without a few people."[34]
about 350,000-1,5 mil
so lol mao pwns with min: 22,900,000
and max: 62,100,000
probably 40,000,000
I took LOWS in all three so no "that's such an exageration" I was suprised my the huge number mao may have killed and stalin hitler is much harder to do becuse I mean it depends on your definition of killing.

It is incredible... just incredible... such a massive ammount of non-verified material, such a massive ammount of material that can even defy logic and just to advance a political position... amazing...
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Sep 06, 2008 5:19 pm

Zealut Hitler didnt killed anyone right?
He just gave orders like Stalin so there both not killers, s Hitler is good?
Stalin is good?

When i once sayd to u Stalin killed that many ppl your like "hmm yes but u see he just gave orders so he dnt rlly killed him"
Thats rlly a lame excuse.
So why dont use it for evryone?
Hitler wasnt a killer.
And reply to me on FInland i wnna kno what u think about that.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Sep 06, 2008 7:12 pm

CoolKidX wrote:
Zealut Hitler didnt killed anyone right?
He just gave orders like Stalin so there both not killers, s Hitler is good?
Stalin is good?

When i once sayd to u Stalin killed that many ppl your like "hmm yes but u see he just gave orders so he dnt rlly killed him"
Thats rlly a lame excuse.
So why dont use it for evryone?
Hitler wasnt a killer.

Bring the context in which I said that. You cappies love taking things out of context always, otherwise your arguements would be completely flawed.

Stalin indeed was responsible for a couple million of murders, but not 60 million. It's impossible to kill around 32% of your country's population without anyone knowing and without producing solid enough evidence, too patent evidence of which if you managed hiding some its evidence that would have come if not during the destalinization process, surely during the Glastnost' policy. And there's no evidence, it's just estimates. Ridiculous estimates.

CoolKidX wrote:

And reply to me on FInland i wnna kno what u think about that.

I replied to you, actually in a very sarcastic way bcause you seem to know nothing about Finland's history. Findland WAS NEVER CONQUERED by the USSR.

All military operations the USSR held in Europe previous to WWII were to gain buffer zones against a German offensive.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Sep 06, 2008 7:15 pm

HORSE SHIT !!!!
Finland was attacked in ...1939!!!!!!!!!!
It stopped in 1940 . 1 year before the Germansa attacked so u dont know sh!t about it.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Sep 06, 2008 7:17 pm

CoolKidX wrote:
HORSE SHIT !!!!
Finland was attacked in ...1939!!!!!!!!!!
It stopped in 1940 . 1 year before the Germansa attacked so u dont know sh!t about it.

Do you know the difference between "attack" and "conquest"?
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Sep 06, 2008 7:18 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
CoolKidX wrote:
HORSE SHIT !!!!
Finland was attacked in ...1939!!!!!!!!!!
It stopped in 1940 . 1 year before the Germansa attacked so u dont know sh!t about it.

Do you know the difference between "attack" and "conquest"?

Ow hell no u dnt, they attacked them, just tell me what for reason the soviet union would attack Finland for?
They wanted land!
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Sep 06, 2008 7:56 pm

CoolKidX wrote:




Ow hell no u dnt, they attacked them,

Would you mind to try to make sense?

CoolKidX wrote:

just tell me what for reason the soviet union would attack Finland for?
They wanted land!

No, they wanted buffer zones against the inminent Nazi agression.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Sep 06, 2008 7:58 pm

Dammit Zealut , NO!
Thiz was BEFORE the germans attacked Russia(Soviet Union), they had a peace threaty or something and Russia dnt know theyw ere bein attacked then, they just attacked Finland, in fact thiz was a illegal war to.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 7 Icon_minitimeSat Sep 06, 2008 8:02 pm

CoolKidX wrote:
Dammit Zealut , NO!

No what?
CoolKidX wrote:

Thiz was BEFORE the germans attacked Russia(Soviet Union), they had a peace threaty or something and Russia dnt know theyw ere bein attacked then, they just attacked Finland, in fact thiz was a illegal war to.

You know what buffer zones are right? Well, you seem not to so I'll explain to you.

When a country tries to get control of part of another country or the whole country to create a buffer zone it is precisely FORESEEING A CONFLICT THAT HASN'T STARTED OR HASN'T REACHED THE COUNTRY CREATING THE BUFFER ZONES.

So, they were preventive means.
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