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 Deportation of Stalin into Gulag

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mattabesta
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeMon Sep 08, 2008 9:10 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:


Nazi Germany was threattening the USSR thus the USSR was at risk of an invation from Nazi Germany.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov-Ribbentrop

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ribbentrop-Molotov.svg

lol that was too easy
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeMon Sep 08, 2008 9:12 pm

mattabesta wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:


Nazi Germany was threattening the USSR thus the USSR was at risk of an invation from Nazi Germany.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov-Ribbentrop

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ribbentrop-Molotov.svg

lol that was too easy

I smell the air of ownage.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeMon Sep 08, 2008 10:16 pm

mattabesta wrote:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov-Ribbentrop

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Ribbentrop-Molotov.svg

lol that was too easy


Exactly, too easy and that's why you fail. I'll put it in your very simple language for you not to have hardships understanding it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Comintern_Pact
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party

If you have just a little bit of common sense and reading comprehension skills in english you would understand how that pact was a joke and how it ensured absolutely nothing.

CoolKidX wrote:

I smell the air of ownage.

Comming from yourself of course.

By considering the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact a guarantee that Nazis wouldn't attack the USSR and by thinking Soviets would really see it that way, you crown yourselves as naïve, lacking undertsanding of contexts either by lack of comprehension, knowledge or both, and to a lesser extent snob.

I'd call that self-ownage though.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeMon Sep 08, 2008 10:23 pm

Just tell me Zealut why are you so mad about thiz?
Can't have it your pretty USSR has made it mistakes, evry country does so stop whining about it.

You wont convert me about the fact USSR wanted actully something "good" in Finland, and i can't convince you about it was pure impralism.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeMon Sep 08, 2008 10:48 pm

CoolKidX wrote:
Just tell me Zealut why are you so mad about thiz?

Mad? I'm absolutely not mad. I'm on a teaching mood Smile Again, don't think everyone reacts the same way as you would react.

CoolKidX wrote:

Can't have it your pretty USSR has made it mistakes, evry country does so stop whining about it.

It made mistakes, lots, and I have said it hundreads of times and with enough details. But, in this particular sense, I'm fighting for objectivity.

You argue USSR had Imperialist intentions yet you fail to fundament your claim neither to apply common sense to it.

CoolKidX wrote:

You wont convert me about the fact USSR wanted actully something "good" in Finland, and i can't convince you about it was pure impralism.

There are objective truths and subjective ones. This is a purely objective truth.

Imperialism, for you to know, implies military, territorial, politic, cultural and economic domination of a nation. How the hell does the Soviet offensive on Finland qualify as this?

The only logical conclusion after analysing the conflict is that USSR wanted to make it harder for Germans to enter USSR given a german advance through Finland.

USSR could have got a much greater part of Finland, USSR could have literally dominated Finland, yet it didn't.

Had USSR been sure Germans wouldn't attack and having had Imperialist intentions, USSR would have dominated Finland something that didn't happen.

It's obvious that in your desire to name any single soviet military operation "Imperialism" you fail to apply common sense in the analysis of the conflict.

It's not the first time you come up with something similar CoolKidX.

You're not only biased against USSR, you would simply disregard any possible fact just to launch some more mud on it. In this case you're disregarding the implications of imperialism, the context of the situation and even its outcome.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeMon Sep 08, 2008 10:51 pm

Im not mad about it to, just looked you were kinda mad about it O.O

Zealut:"USSR could have got a much greater part of Finland, USSR could have literally dominated Finland, yet it didn't."

Erm..so what are you saying that its stronegr then Finland and coult take it?

USA could take the middle-east, France maybe, tough they don't.

So im not sure what your meaning by thiz..
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeMon Sep 08, 2008 11:03 pm

CoolKidX wrote:
Im not mad about it to, just looked you were kinda mad about it O.O

I never said you were.

CoolKidX wrote:

Zealut:"USSR could have got a much greater part of Finland, USSR could have literally dominated Finland, yet it didn't."

Erm..so what are you saying that its stronegr then Finland and coult take it?

No.
You're claiming USSR was imperialist and had nothing to fear. Since USSR was much stronger than Finland and actually defeated it in the Winter War, if USSR had nothing to fear and was Imperialist why didn't it dominate Finland?

Is that more clear to you?


CoolKidX wrote:

USA could take the middle-east, France maybe, tough they don't.

So im not sure what your meaning by thiz..

Ok I explained it in a more simple way, I hope you understand. Just as I hope you understand how your paralelism is absolutely out of context.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeMon Sep 08, 2008 11:04 pm

Stalin may not have expected an invasion to come so soon—and the Soviet Union was relatively unprepared for this invasion. An alternative theory suggested by Viktor Suvorov claims that Stalin had made aggressive preparations from the late 1930s on and was about to invade Germany in summer 1941. Thus, he believes Hitler only managed to forestall Stalin and the German invasion was in essence a pre-emptive strike. This theory was supported by Igor Bunich, Mikhail Meltyukhov (see Stalin's Missed Chance) and Edvard Radzinsky (see Stalin: The First In-Depth Biography Based on Explosive New Documents from Russia's Secret Archives).
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeMon Sep 08, 2008 11:16 pm

mattabesta wrote:
Stalin may not have expected an invasion to come so soon—and the Soviet Union was relatively unprepared for this invasion. An alternative theory suggested by Viktor Suvorov claims that Stalin had made aggressive preparations from the late 1930s on and was about to invade Germany in summer 1941. Thus, he believes Hitler only managed to forestall Stalin and the German invasion was in essence a pre-emptive strike. This theory was supported by Igor Bunich, Mikhail Meltyukhov (see Stalin's Missed Chance) and Edvard Radzinsky (see Stalin: The First In-Depth Biography Based on Explosive New Documents from Russia's Secret Archives).

Ridiculous quotation post. If you're going to come and post here do it with your own words and don't be just a proxy.

Now. "Stalin may not have expected an invation to come so soon". - This is ambiguous and doesn't disregard the possibility that USSR.

And you argue that USSR wasn't prepared to receive a German invation, yet, you argue that USSR was preparing an offensive on Germany by 1941... of course that makes perfect sense... "Hell, I'm unprepared to defend against an attack of yours, but I'm totally prepared to attack you specially when you're conquering the hell out of Europe and advancing towards me!" That makes a lot of sense...

What a damned blatant disregard for common sense...

If you are prepared to attack a nation (having the objective to defeat it) then you ought to be able of defending against it.

It's known the Soviet army was greatly crippled and most of Soviet equipment was outdated by the standards of 1941. How can that condition qualify as preparing an offensive?

By the way "Was about to invade Germany in summer 1941". To directly invade Germany... Like Poland didn't exist or something like that or as if it had been completely annexed by teh USSR....

If you're going to quote something matta, make sure it makes sense and is worth quoting.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 09, 2008 12:23 am

If you are prepared to attack a nation (having the objective to defeat it) then you ought to be able of defending against it.

not the ussr they didn't really have the best generals zukov was one of the few "good" ones.

Counter-arguments to the usual interpretation have been advanced by former GRU defector Viktor Suvorov, author of Icebreaker. This book argues that Soviet ground forces were extremely well organized, and were mobilizing en masse all along the German-Soviet border for a Soviet invasion of Europe slated for Sunday July 6, 1941. The German Barbarossa, he claims, actually was a pre-emptive strike that capitalized on the massive Soviet troop concentrations immediately on the 1941 Nazi Germany's borders. Suvorov argues therefore that Soviet troop concentrations on Germany's borders were offensive in nature, not defensive as usually described.

The now published Zhukov proposal of May 15, 1941[38] called for a Soviet strike against Germany. Thus the document suggested secret mobilisation and deploying Red Army troops next to the Western border, under the cover of training. Although generally believed to be a mere draft disapproved of by Stalin,[39] the above mentioned historians have argued, that — given Stalin's concentration of power — the thesis of Soviet generals pursuing a line independent of Stalin's and composing an invasion plan must have been extremely improbable. Moreover, it is argued that the actual Soviet troops concentration was near the border, just like fuel depots and airfields. All of this was unsuitable for defensive operations. (Maser 1994: 376–378; Hoffmann 1999: 52–56)

I really like easy pwning

In the 1940s, the Soviet Union was by no means a weak country. Rapid Soviet industrialization in the 1930s had resulted in industrial output second only to that of the United States, and equal to that of Germany. Production of military equipment grew steadily, and in the pre-war years the economy became progressively more oriented toward military production. In the early 1930s, a very modern operational doctrine for the Red Army was developed and promulgated in the 1936 field regulations.


In 1941, the Soviet armed forces in the western districts were outnumbered by their German counterparts, 2.6 million Soviet soldiers vs. 4.5 million for the Axis. The overall size of the Soviet armed forces in early July 1941, though, amounted to a little more than 5 million men, 2.6 million in the west, 1.8 million in the far east, with the rest being deployed or training elsewhere. [26] Moreover, on mobilization, as the war went on, the Red Army gained steadily in strength. While the strength of both sides varied, in general it is accurate to say that the 1941 campaign was fought with the Axis having slight numerical superiority in manpower at the front.

soviet forces:

Development of the armed forces of the Soviet Union
from 1939 to 1941[25] January 1, 1939 June 22, 1941
Divisions calculated 131.5 316.5
Personnel 2,485,000 5,774,000
Guns and mortars 55,800 117,600
Tanks 21,100 25,700
Aircraft 7,700 18,700

yeah no build up at all no terratoril expansiopn just purly defencive mammuth growth.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 09, 2008 4:33 am

mattabesta wrote:
If you are prepared to attack a nation (having the objective to defeat it) then you ought to be able of defending against it.

not the ussr they didn't really have the best generals zukov was one of the few "good" ones.

I hope you're aware that this doesn't make sense.

mattabesta wrote:

Counter-arguments to the usual interpretation have been advanced by former GRU defector Viktor Suvorov, author of Icebreaker. This book argues that Soviet ground forces were extremely well organized, and were mobilizing en masse all along the German-Soviet border for a Soviet invasion of Europe slated for Sunday July 6, 1941. The German Barbarossa, he claims, actually was a pre-emptive strike that capitalized on the massive Soviet troop concentrations immediately on the 1941 Nazi Germany's borders. Suvorov argues therefore that Soviet troop concentrations on Germany's borders were offensive in nature, not defensive as usually described.

One biased historian with poor founding for his arguements and that disregards greatly the nature of the soviet system, the conditions of USSR during WWII and the intrinsic nature of Fascism just as the prewar situation.

He disregards greatly the essense of Soviet military doctrines (for example teh fact that USSR actually uses airbo rne divisions in a deffensive fashion as well).

He disregards completely the fact that Soviet weaponry by the time by no means met the standards to face the wermacht neither in a defensive ay nor offensive.


mattabesta wrote:

The now published Zhukov proposal of May 15, 1941[38] called for a Soviet strike against Germany. Thus the document suggested secret mobilisation and deploying Red Army troops next to the Western border, under the cover of training. Although generally believed to be a mere draft disapproved of by Stalin,[39] the above mentioned historians have argued, that — given Stalin's concentration of power — the thesis of Soviet generals pursuing a line independent of Stalin's and composing an invasion plan must have been extremely improbable. Moreover, it is argued that the actual Soviet troops concentration was near the border, just like fuel depots and airfields. All of this was unsuitable for defensive operations. (Maser 1994: 376–378; Hoffmann 1999: 52–56)

Basically the absurd arguement goes like this:

"USSR considered launching an offensive on Germany meaning it was actually going to attack"

However, by analysing the situation of the soviet troops stationed in the wester part of USSR's controlled territory, it is clearly seen that it was an indefinite preparation, neither offensive nor deffensive.

Else its pretty clear USSR was not prepared for either of both. And it's of course logical to assume USSR would have stricken Nazi Germany getting the chance to do so, in order to get rid of an ENEMY.


mattabesta wrote:

I really like easy pwning

More like easy self-owning.

And to prove this lets address your whole point when bringing up the theory that USSR was actually planning to attack Germany:

Your arguement, by bringing this theory up, as a response to my arguement that USSR was preparing for a German attack fails to serve as a counter arguement for the following reson:

It fails completely to disprove the possibility that USSR was preparing for a German attack. In fact it actually makes you acknowledge that in any case, USSR was foreseeing a military confrontation with Nazi Germany, part of my point.

Now, even assuming the possition that Suvorov et al. are right, where's the arguement that it wouldn't have been a pre-emptive strike itself foreseeing a German attack in either near or later future? Nowhere, therefore, if true, it could have been a pre-entive strike on itself.

No disproof that USSR feared a confrontation with Germany.

Now, Viktorov argues that Stalin planned to go on with the "Permanent Revolution" doctrine and that "communist nations" need to expand to survive. It is well known that Stalinism is against the Permanent Revolution proposition (and Marxist fellows won't let me lie) and it was clearly seen in his post revolutionary attitude. It is said that communism requires the whole world to be communist (in order to ensure no communist factions emerge) however Stalin greatly proposed the opposite.

And of course, the intrinsic characteristic of both parties involved has to be ignored right? While USSR and Stalinism were failed attempts at building communism, USSR was a left country and Stalinism is a left-wing doctrine. USSR was a workers' state regardless of the failure of instauration of communism in it.

Germany on the other hand was a Fascsit nation. It was governed by Nazis which would search the benefit of Germany's great industrials and in lesser extent of the German people at the expense of other countries' inferior workers. German Nazism greatly regarded Eastern European peoples as greatly inferior therefore a target for esclavisation and partial extermination.

Nazi Germany had all the intentions to destroy the Soviet regime, cultures within USSR and the USSR itself enslaving its people. The Soviet regime and its left-wing ideology were opposite to Nazis' ideology making them natural enemies. USSR was seen as a quite worthy target for several reasons: a vast territory full with both material and human resources to exploit. Else, according to the policy of ethnical cleansing, an important part of Europe's Jewish population was found within USSR's borders.
And of course a workers' state was absolutely unconceivable in Nasi eyes, intolerable. It would sooner or later mean problems no matter how passive.

The fascist factions and the socialist factions had already engaged in a direct confrontation in the Spanish Civil War, clearly showing Nazi intentions. USSR and Germany had an indirect confrontation here.

USSR would have indeed attacked Germany sooner or later, that's obvious, but it's quite clear it wasn't ready by 1941. If you got an enemy you ought to strike it as soon as you can before he can strike you. It's simple logic.

Else, USSR being a left-wing nation and expecting a chaotic post-war Europe with revolutions sprouting, of course would have expected to intervene in favour of those revolutions. Not as part of a "Permanent Revolution policy" but as part of a logical reaction: give assistance to allies.


mattabesta wrote:

In the 1940s, the Soviet Union was by no means a weak country. Rapid Soviet industrialization in the 1930s had resulted in industrial output second only to that of the United States, and equal to that of Germany.

And no one said it was. It's absurd to think that the largest country in the world can be weak.

It was proven that USSR was a strong country during many occassions and WWII was just another proof.

However, there's a difference between "strong country" and "strong army".

USSR's army was horribly crippled and most of its military technology was outdated in the start of the war. The bulk of powerful soviet technology was developed and built between 1941.

mattabesta wrote:

Production of military equipment grew steadily, and in the pre-war years the economy became progressively more oriented toward military production. In the early 1930s, a very modern operational doctrine for the Red Army was developed and promulgated in the 1936 field regulations.

Proving that USSR was preparing for a war and for a completely hostile world. Logical part of the Socialism in One country doctrine.

mattabesta wrote:

In 1941, the Soviet armed forces in the western districts were outnumbered by their German counterparts, 2.6 million Soviet soldiers vs. 4.5 million for the Axis. The overall size of the Soviet armed forces in early July 1941, though, amounted to a little more than 5 million men, 2.6 million in the west, 1.8 million in the far east, with the rest being deployed or training elsewhere. [26] Moreover, on mobilization, as the war went on, the Red Army gained steadily in strength. While the strength of both sides varied, in general it is accurate to say that the 1941 campaign was fought with the Axis having slight numerical superiority in manpower at the front.

soviet forces:

Development of the armed forces of the Soviet Union
from 1939 to 1941[25] January 1, 1939 June 22, 1941
Divisions calculated 131.5 316.5
Personnel 2,485,000 5,774,000
Guns and mortars 55,800 117,600
Tanks 21,100 25,700
Aircraft 7,700 18,700

And now you just bring a bucnh of figures that support absolutely no arguement but the fact that USSR was preparing for war.

mattabesta wrote:

yeah no build up at all no terratoril expansiopn just purly defencive mammuth growth.

My point is that USSR was preparing for a German attack, for a war against Germany. Do you notice that you do not disprove it at all, and that actually just give an alternative view on that supporting that theisis?

If USSR was preparing for a German attack it could have been on several ways, and either of both is exactly that.

It's obvious, it's simple common sense that USSR and Germany would have gone to war sooner or later. Either if USSR intentions were purely deffensive or if the implied an offensive, an offesnive logically deducted as preemtive strike. What's your great point?

You both were on a rant that USSR was imperialist and that is seeked to conquer Finland. You were proven wrong so now you ought to come with the thesis that USSR was preparing for war against Germany and start from the premise that "in no way did USSR plan to defend itself from Germany". To prove what? That "USSR was an aggresiv e imperialist nation seeking to dominate the world"? Come on... really come on.

You go as fucking far as to say that Germany actually was about to be the victim of a Soviet imperialist aggression and prevented it through a pre-emptive strike? Now this is a way to distort and misinterpret things.

It's simple, even if USSR was planning an offensive on Germany, what the hell makes you think it wasn't as well with pre-emptive intentions? Actually Zhukov's proposal would denote that.

Damn... your lack of use of common sense and your lack of own criteria (or what you call "easy-[self]owning") is appaling....
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 09, 2008 5:27 pm

Soviet forces suffered heavy damage in the field as a result of poor levels of preparedness, whose primary causes were inadequate officers, as a result of the purges, disorganization as a result of a partially completed mobilization, and the reorganization the Army was undergoing.[15] The hasty pre-war growth and over-promotion of inexperienced Red Army officers as well as the removal of experienced officers caused by the Purges offset the balance favorably for the Germans.[16] The sheer numeric superiority of the Axis cannot be underestimated, though the combat strength of the two opposing forces appears to have been roughly equal in numbers of divisions.[17]
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 09, 2008 5:35 pm

In the 1st attack of the USSR they had heavy loses but the General learned from it and on the 2nd attack they had Finland, but in all thiz war USSR had more losses.

Not a argument just a fact.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 09, 2008 7:15 pm

CoolKidX wrote:
In the 1st attack of the USSR they had heavy loses but the General learned from it and on the 2nd attack they had Finland, but in all thiz war USSR had more losses.

Not a argument just a fact.

the germans lost like15 mil but allies 25 (75% russians)so proportionally the allies lost much less but that was at lage part due to the feirce resistance of german troops in the last year wich didn´t really help.

anyway the russians were mean to finland and continusly whining about how facist evry historian in the world is isn´t going to change that.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 09, 2008 10:48 pm

mattabesta wrote:
Soviet forces suffered heavy damage in the field as a result of poor levels of preparedness, whose primary causes were inadequate officers, as a result of the purges, disorganization as a result of a partially completed mobilization, and the reorganization the Army was undergoing.[15] The hasty pre-war growth and over-promotion of inexperienced Red Army officers as well as the removal of experienced officers caused by the Purges offset the balance favorably for the Germans.[16] The sheer numeric superiority of the Axis cannot be underestimated, though the combat strength of the two opposing forces appears to have been roughly equal in numbers of divisions.[17]

And this is supposed to address what exactly?


mattabesta wrote:


anyway the russians were mean to finland and continusly whining about how facist evry historian in the world is isn´t going to change that.

Don't begin with slander you too. I'm not calling every historian fascist. Nor am I saying USSR didn't attack Finland.

I'm simply correcting your improper use of the term "imperialism" and pointing out your disregard for the context as well as your horrid bias and the fact that your arguements do not disprove mine.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 10, 2008 12:55 am

disorganization as a result of a partially completed mobilization
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 10, 2008 4:54 am

mattabesta wrote:
disorganization as a result of a partially completed mobilization

Yeah... so?
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 10, 2008 4:24 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
disorganization as a result of a partially completed mobilization

Yeah... so?

you really are dumb( don´t ban me they holy zelut)
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Zealot_Kommunizma
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 10, 2008 10:24 pm

mattabesta wrote:


you really are dumb( don´t ban me they holy zelut)

Poor kid, your think I'm of your kind (on both senses). You got no damn arguement so you simply ought to recurr to the old ad hominem.

It's ok, another piece of self-ownage for you.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 11, 2008 7:35 am

mattabesta wrote:
Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
disorganization as a result of a partially completed mobilization

Yeah... so?

you really are dumb( don´t ban me they holy zelut)

lol you call zealot stupid, when you spell almost every word wrong.

FAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeThu Sep 11, 2008 3:42 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:


you really are dumb( don´t ban me they holy zelut)

Poor kid, your think I'm of your kind (on both senses). You got no damn arguement so you simply ought to recurr to the old ad hominem.

It's ok, another piece of self-ownage for you.
Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral

wtf? read becuse you obviusly haven´t
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 12, 2008 5:00 am

mattabesta wrote:
Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral

wtf? read becuse you obviusly haven´t

You're simply asserting that I'm dumb after I ask you the implications of the existance of a mobilization since I have already disregarded its relevance more than once as a back up for your arguements.

The one who ought to read again is you, because you obviusly don't seem to be understanding.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 12, 2008 4:16 pm

Zealot_Kommunizma wrote:
mattabesta wrote:
Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral

wtf? read becuse you obviusly haven´t

You're simply asserting that I'm dumb after I ask you the implications of the existance of a mobilization since I have already disregarded its relevance more than once as a back up for your arguements.

The one who ought to read again is you, because you obviusly don't seem to be understanding.

and your rgument for the mobalization not being offencive?
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeFri Sep 12, 2008 4:45 pm

mattabesta wrote:


and your rgument for the mobalization not being offencive?

Read again because I explained already.
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PostSubject: Re: Deportation of Stalin into Gulag   Deportation of Stalin into Gulag - Page 9 Icon_minitimeSun Dec 28, 2008 9:49 pm

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